Hey Everybody,

I have spent a lot of time reading your posts in recent days and there is more than one elephant in the room. The first being the concern with backsliding and regaining your weight, which is understandable and probable for some of you in the short term. Sometimes it takes a little work to make the transition from such a very low calorie regime. The good news is, it is probably mostly water and will abate very soon.

The second issue I see as a biggie is the fear of many, of the loss of "blissful appetite control". When we feel in control of our appetites we can surely stay in control of our diets. It's true, appetite control is certainly a cornerstone of weight loss. Our appetite is a powerful force of nature and not always an easy one to deal with. It's this fear that I want to deal with.

If you have done Atkins than this will be old news to you, but it bears repeating. On the negative side of appetite control are carbs. You'll get the same advise here about restricting them. Appetite as related to carbs is a function of biology and insulin. Carbs are what drive your appetite, fat quiets it. If you want to know the "whys" of that there are many books available that explain that concept. All of Dr. Atkins books, Barry Sears' The Zone, I haven't read Jonny Bowden's book but I'm sure that is addressed, as well as just some good old fashioned research on the net.

What's important for you to know is that a high fat diet is not juxtaposed to ketosis, the very thing that controls your appetite. In fact it enhances it by assisting your body in releasing stored body fat. So I will say it again. Eat your fat. You won't lose control over your appetite and it won't be the cause of additional weight gain. Quite the opposite. Add fat calories to your diet and you just might be pleasantly surprised at the results. That should be your very first step in the transition process. By adding the fat you will also add calories. Be generous with it in the form of butter, cream, fatty meats, and full fat salad dressings, as well as healthful oils. The up side is, it tastes good too and it's what your body probably needs most right now.

I hope those of you who have been here for awhile will share your positive experiences and those of you with questions, ask away and we'll try to answer them for you. Best of luck to all of you on your continued journey.

Are you sure????!!! hahahaha

You have hit it on the head with this one! That is exactly what I just got finished putting in my journal. (fear of fat)

I keep telling myself that after a few days and a few pounds lost, I can become a "believer" again!

But it is hard to keep my thoughts right.

It's hard, but I've had some really good reports of stable weights and some weight loss on my Groves thread and Groves is the king of "fat".

RULE #1 and repeat after me: FAT IS YOUR FRIEND, FAT IS YOUR FRIEND.

If you still don't believe it, then go back to Rule #1.

GOT IT? GOOD!

Excellent and well timed post Melodie!

Melodie, boy did I (and many others) need to find "Ex-Kimkins Members: This Information Is For You." Your timing was perfect.

Thank you for getting this out there and also for telling us that Dr. Groves is the King of Fat.

FAT IS MY FRIEND, FAT IS MY FRIEND.
What is Rule #1 again? Oh yes, FAT IS MY FRIEND.

Jimmy, what would we do without You?

Regandy, "fear of fat" has been at the top of my list all week and I believe for so many others too.

I just might get banned after I finally opened up tonight in a chat room but I could care less. When a Newbie wanted to know exactly what to avoid, I told her ignore what she read about using only enough fat to prepare her food. I told her to add fat, fat and more fat to her program. I'll do WHATEVER it takes to help anyone avoid what I (and many others) have been going through. A nurse buddy was in that room and when she read the horrors that started for me 3 weeks ago, she sent me an IM insisting that I get more FAT in my program IMMEDIATELY, like tonight before I got into bed.

Thanks to the four of you, I just added 37 fat grams to my total for today.

I'll tell you how I've increased over the past 5 days (starting on Saturday): 29, 53, 48, 51 and 74.

Working on calories too: from 690 to 1,177. SO much better than the 300 - 350 I was (unintentionally) having daily for a while.

I will safely rest in this new Nest forever. I'm finally forcing more calories and thanks again to this new thread, I WILL let go of my "fear of fat."

With sincere appreciation,
Carole

Kimkins did a real number on my head or should I say::: I did a real number on my head..I am trying to add fat a little at a time the easiest being a full fat carb free salad dressing..and yes I am terrified of loosing my new found control over my appetite..yes I am terrified of fat...but there are so many choices for locarb diets the more I read the more confused I get..Thanks for being so patient....

I did love not being hungry at all.
I think I always added more fat them KK allowed though
sandi

Pegala,

Yes, Kimkins does do a number on your head, no doubt about it. It comes through loud and clear in the many posts I have read. The difficult thing is that Kimkims actually reinforces the old tired notion that fat will make you fat. That theory is born out of the severe calorie restrictions she would have you practice and the fact that fat has more than double the calories of carbs or protein. The problem is she has thrown biochemistry to the winds with her thinking. The evidence clearly supports that "all calories are not created equal" both in the laboratory and in the daily practice of not just our members, but people throughout time and all over the world who have eaten and continue to eat this way. If she practices what she preaches then you know it just doesn't work that way. Not even for her!

Robin, continue to "chant". It will eventually become second nature to you.

Thank you for the information, I am having to get a whole new mindset.

Morning, everyone!
Melodie, excellent post and I hope everyone transitioning from Kimkins reads it.

I knew all about how to low carb healthily and always had great success, but Kimkins fooled even me, and got my brain all twisted up.

For any of you wondering, here are my numbers.

After stopping Kimkins I gained 14 pounds (out of 21 pounds lost in 21 days) back in a WEEK, but I was eating total junk.

I started Monday at 319.6. This morning I was at 311.2.

My calories on Kimkins *struggled* to be 500 or less.
My calories this week have been over 2000--mind you, this is appropriate for my weight based on a link that BamaGal listed in another thread. I can't find it, but ask her, she'll tell you...it's based on your weight, height, it's called your BMR.

So see? It works, PPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEE believe it. Also, my dry skin is going away, I feel fantastic, and I'm not sleepy and irritable all day.

Thanks again, Melodie.

I was fairly lucky in that I only did Kimkins for three weeks, and even though I was following the program, after the initial week, my weightloss was only 1.5 and 2 lbs each for the 2nd and 3rd weeks. That has made it easier, mentally, for me to start adding the fat back because I can maintain that slow loss even with more fat. But it's still hard... and not just because of Kimkins. It's something we've been hearing all our lives!

I'm trying to un-brainwash myself by reading up on the pro-fat literature. Just started reading Barry Groves book last night, and was inspired to get up early to fix a breakfast of eggs, smoked salmon and cheese. Lovely!

Anyway, I'll have a better idea of how the additional fat will effect my weightloss after a couple of weeks. I can't wait to report back! Nothing is more convincing than success!!

ctplr2btrfly,

Thanks for the encouraging words. Those words are best when they come from people who have walked a mile in your shoes. Best to you, I know you'll do great!

Well as a former KK, yesterday I took the plunge and went out and bought regular mayo, regular sour cream, regular cream cheese, heavy whipping cream and regular Ranch dressing. I feel really optimistic now and have decided to go on Atkins.

I have always taken Omega 3, even before KK, so I could keep cholesterol in check. Now I have added Biotin. Hopefully the little hair that I normally have won't fall out. I am getting paranoid with all the posts regarding hair loss.

Thanks Melodie! This is a well timed post for me. I'm still trying to get my head right after kk.

FAT IS MY FRIEND. -- Thanks Jimmy. I may have to put this in my signature so I have to look at it every day.

All --

I fell off the weight-loss trainwreck called Kimkins and spent two weeks eating complete garbage. I can't believe I did it, but I re-read Dr. Atkins' DANDR over the course of three evenings (Fri/Sat/Sun), cover to cover, while enjoying freshly-popped, butter and salt-laden popcorn -- all THREE NIGHTS! I think it's safe to say that I was stuffed to the gills with carbs. . .

I started Atkins Induction on Monday (yes, this Monday). I got on the scale and it read 225.6#. As of this morning, I am 217.4#. That's 8.2# in FOUR DAYS! This is faster than I ever lost, even on K/E.

And here's why: for me, lean protein is only slightly more filling than carbs. If there's little or no fat involved, I can eat ridiculous quantities of protein and still not be satisfied. I don't know why I'm so different from everyone else at Kimkin's seems to be -- maybe it was the cream, butter, and cheese-heavy recipes that I grew up in the tundra of Northern Lower Michigan. The only reason I ate so little on Kimkin's was because the thought of another boneless, skinless, fatless chicken breast with plain ol' steamed veggies just made me want to hurl (maybe that's the true source of SNATT )!

Glorious natural FAT is the magic bullet for my appetite, and for my palate! My calorie consumption has gone up from KK simply because I actually enjoy eating now! But I'm still eating less food (quantity-wise) than I was before I came back to low-carb. To further illustrate, I've eaten red meat at four meals this week; in the KK world, I should be inflating like a Macy's Thanksgiving Day balloon -- but the pants I could barely button Monday morning are comfortable!

Synopsis -- FAT ROCKS!

Sara

Congrats Sara! Keep in mind that the first two weeks are when you lose the fastest, then it will slow down. You are doing great! Keep up the good work!

Thanks, Melodie for posting this. I am slowly getting my head purged of the kimkins thinking so find that I am a sponge when it comes to all the information on Jimmy's site. My gosh, I will admit, I thought kimkins was easy because I was "spoon fed" what I needed to do..........brainwashed is a more accurate term!

Slowly, but surely, catching on.................Carolia

Sara, congrats on the 8 lbs. and thanks for sharing your story. Your point about the gall bladder is a good one, so I hope everyone will take heed with that as well. I remember hearing once that our gall bladder makes the proper amount of bile based on our last meal. So that is a good case for edging things up slowly, especially if you've suffered from that pesky thing in the past.

Carolia, I'm glad we have helped. That's what we are here for. I hope the posts on this thread will give you the confidence to begin a healthier way of eating without fear. Good luck to you, you can do this!

To all my KK friends.....

I KNOW this is all scarey to you. I was scared too. But look at my following numbers and the weight lost the day after:

September 18
Calories 1196.72
Fat 94.5
Net Carbs 20.46
Protein 69.77
lost 3 pounds the next day

September 17th

Calories 1512
Fat 108
Net Carbs 19.65
Total Carbs 60
Protein 70

Lost 1 pound the next day

September 19

Calories 1455.42
Fat 95
Net Carbs 45
Protein 70

lost 3 pounds the next day


So, don't be afraid. This works just as good than KK AND it is healthier.

Sue

Buzzy, that's awesome! Keep up the good work girlfriend! Thanks for sharing with everyone.

Hi, everyone, I feel at home amongst the former Kimkins I'm so confused, I don't know what to do group. I am terrified to eat more fat and up my calories although that is exactly what I am doing. Since upping the Cal and Fat, I have had two low blood sugar attacks. I use to have them all the time, then after starting Kimkins, I never had one after the first two days. I stayed on KE, cheat free , for 3 months and lost almost 50 lb. Three days ago, besides upping the cal and fat, I ate a small pear and a small bunch of grapes. The next day, I had another small bunch of grapes. I was wondering if that is what caused the problem. I am eating more veggies but am trying to keep it at 20 g or below. I was also wondering if anyone knows whether sugar alcohol will cause blood sugar issues. I had an Atkins bar after my blood sugar dropped in Wal Mart (that is really all I could find).

I am excited about the chance to learn as much as I can about balanced low carb eating. I am taking this step with fear and trepidation. I have not been able to lose weight on any other diet in many years, not even Atkins.

Welcome to my forum jonoandemsmom! I'm happy to see you here and just want to encourage you that you ARE among many friends who will love and care for you through this journey. DON'T GIVE UP hope because we've all been where you are.

Yes, sugar alcohols can mess with some people's blood sugar levels, so lay off of them for now. Focus on getting your fat intake up to at least half of your caloric intake and keeping those carbs around 20g (non-starchy, green, leafy veggies are best!). You will also want to get to a MINIMUM of 1200 calories a day for good basal metabolism.

YOU CAN DO THIS and we're here to help you! Please let me know if you EVER have any questions. I'm happy to help!

jonoandemsmom, welcome. Even though you may have been within the limits of 20g of carb, I would look to the fruit first as possibly being the trouble makers. Did you eat the fruit alone or with some proteinand/or fat. Fruit alone would probably have a much greater impact on your blood sugar thus the ups and downs than fruit combined with fat and protein. Experiment a little with that and maybe keep a loosely written diary for the next couple of days to identify the problem foods. There is also a possibility that it will spontaneously clear on it's own. Some people are sensitive to sugar alcohols, but I doubt to the degree of fruit. That's only a guess, no science to back that one up. Best of luck, post often, and keep reading and experimenting.

Sugar alcohols can surely cause blood sugar issues. On another low carb board, a dear lady who has blood sugar issues tested various artificial sweeteners and found out that most caused a serious rise in blood sugar.

Only pure sucralose, cyclamate, aspartame, etc., can claim zero calories. (In most forms they do have some calories, from the sugary fillers that need to be added to make them usable so you have to count some carbs from the filler. In products such as syrups, soft drinks and jello, however, they have zero calories and can be counted as zero carbs.) One sugar alcohol that is truly zero carb and also did not affect her blood sugar was erythritol.

Since sugar alcohols affect people with high blood sugar, it stands to reason that they will also affect people with low blood sugar issuse. Often you have a quick rise in blood sugar and then you crash. Personally, I switched to liquid Splenda (Sweetzfree) or FiberFit, which is a less concentrated liquid form of sucralose with a little fiber, and zero carbs.

Some of us doing low carb never, ever touch grapes or pears. Our fruit, on the few times we have it, is usually cantaloupe, or berries. Blueberries, in moderation, are a wonderful source of antioxidants. I like to pour a little cream over frozen blueberries, add a little FiberFit, and yummmmm!

I have been doing Atkins for over 5 years fairly continuously, with small side trips in the realm of carbs, usually while on vacation, but 99 percent of the time I'm very low carb, it's been a long, long journey, I have a long, long way yet to go, but I can attest that eating fat, not worrying about calories, only being concerned with carbs, has been the healthiest way of eating for me. I have no health issues from eating fat. It's just become part of my daily diet, and I'm so glad for it. With enough fat, you just aren't ravenous, it really does control your appetite. Kimkins controls the appetite because it causes anorexia, which is just a loss of appetite, but what an unhealthy way to control your appetite! Eat that fat, it's good for your body, it'll help control your appetite, don't be afraid!

Just stay away from transfats, of course, and there is some evidence that soy oil isn't very good for you. Butter, cream, eggs, olive oil, coconut oil (my favorite), mayo, cheese, full fat salad dressings - great ways to "control" that appetite!

I hope all you ex-Kimmers find the path that's right for you. Keep researching, read everything, ask lots of questions. We'll be here for you.

Thanks Nita, good advise.

The comments here about gall bladder caught my eye. I lost almost 80 pounds on KK and am experiencing awful hair loss, always had to use a laxative to make "things" move, etc....I have been trying to maintain the last month and recently since weaning myself off KK, have been adding back in the fats and calories. Trying to get myself on Atkins (very successful with it back in the 70's-80's when I was having my babies) ....the KK brainwashing I went through has done it's job. I'm really having a hard time adding in the fat and calories.

Anyway - back to the gall bladder comment - Monday - I had a sudden intense pain in my stomach area above my waist that sent me to the floor in tears. It took about 15 minutes to ease up. I haven't made it to a doctor yet - but I figure that episode might have been gall bladder related OR it was just gas! The pain came out of no where - it had been about 2 hours since breakfast and that meal wasn't much different from the previous days. The pain has not returned...thank goodness.

Thanks to all for all the good advise and comments.

debbie in AZ

Good Evening!!

Hi my name is Michalle, I'm an ex-Kimkinite . . .

Thankfully I never restricted myself quite like KK says to!! I did do K/E for awhile, but I ate more than most people. The problem I'm having is I ate so much meat I am really tired of it and I keep gravitating towards carby things!! I'm sure my body has been craving good carbs! I agree with what one person said - I did not get full just eating lean meats, I had to eat a LOT of meat ALL day long or I would get so hungry! I really do need more fat! I never quite understood the non-existant appetite of some of the KK members!

Also, I would be so irritable with my carbs being so low! Most days I had 4 - 6 carbs!

I'm glad that is behind me now and I can get back to eating the things I enjoy! I just have to get back on the right road!! I know as soon as I take the bad carbs out of my diet I won't want them anymore, so that is my goal for the rest of this week! I'm not eating anything sweet, it's more like processed food. I am going to try to get back on track again tomorrow!!

Thanks for letting me blab for a few minutes!!!

'See' you all soon!!

I just wanted to add that it is great to have friends that understand exactly what I'm going through right now! Most people don't understand unless they've been through it all.

Hey Michalle! Glad to see you here!

(IF this is my neighbor "Michalle" glad you got my message.)

IF this is NOT my neighbor Michalle, I'm still glad that we have another friend here!

Welcome Michalle! We are so glad you've joined us! Feel free to ask any questions you may have. We are all here to help!

Michalle- you hit the nail on the head for me.

I hate meat right now. I was never a big meat eater before and ate so much chicken breast that I can't stand it. Same with tuna and I used to love tuna. Never was a big red meat eater either. Have been eating all the wrong things and trying to get back on track.

I have been stuggling and the one thing I do miss about KK was the support from all the great people on the boards-. Glad to see so many people here.

Welcome to my forum, Debbie! It's good to see you here and I hope you stick around a while. Wishing you well with the gall bladder thing. My wife had hers taken out last May.

Pickle, I'm sorry you are going through that, I know it isn't fun. I am actually starting to think I might be able to enjoy meat again! I think it helped that I just ate whatever I wanted for a few days (within reason). I know that isn't the best thing health-wise and for weight loss, but I had to give my taste buds some different foods to chew on!!

I am going to do Atkins and if that is what you have decided to do, then we need remember our menu choices have tripled! There are so many more foods we can eat now. And all the real-fat condiments help so much with the flavor. After a while of just eating chicken breasts, I felt like a lab rat on a cardboard diet! I have always loved dark meat chicken but I would make myself eat white meat for fear of getting too much fat! So glad that's over!

I already feel at home here and I hope you do too!!

Blessings to you!!

Melodie, I was wondering if you (or anyone) could tell me where I can find more information on Dr. Barry Groves WOE. I did an internet search but didn't really find much.

Thank you!!

Thanks for the welcome Jimmy and Hi to all the rest of you! I'm going to gradually find my way around here and make a lot of new friends, and re-connect with all my others! I hope to start a new journal here. Most of the good people I visited with "over there" are now here. I'm going to mostly eat Atkins like - low carb, and try to maintain where I'm at - working to firm up and get my overall numbers at a good level.

Jimmy - you and your assistants/moderators, or whatever you call you good people here are providing a valuable service to all of us who are struggling - especially with the mental aspect of "IT" - the "brain-washing" we have gone through. I'm surprised at how hard it is for me to get away from that low calorie way of eating.

I need to read up and reaquaint myself with what I can eat on Atkins.

Everyone have a good healthy happy day. Do something for someone else! Pass it on!

debbie

Debbie, just wanted to say you look GREAT!! Congrats on your weight loss! I hope to follow in you footsteps!!

Jimmy, of course, your weight loss is outstanding!! It makes me so happy to see people like you beat the overweight battle! It gives the rest of us hope that, we too, can do the same thing!!

Thank you all!!

Thanks Nita, Melodie, and Jimmy.

I knew when I ate the fruit, it wasn't low carb. I just ate it. Then, I realized that it would be the beginning of the end so I quit. I don't remember fruit messing with my blood sugar before so maybe it was that I just wasn't use to it.

It concerns me that people don't seem to quite be reaching their goal with Atkins. I am 4'10' and still weigh 169. I lost almost 50 lb with KE but I am still considered seriously obese. I am wondering if it would be better to lose the rest of the weight like I was doing with KE or eat a healthier diet but remain seriously overweight. My weight loss has stopped and is going up and down a lb every other day. I am not giving up but it is troubling me greatly. I know I said I would give it a month or two and I will but I do feel a bit panicky. Unlike so many people that have family members that urged them to quit Kimkins, my husband and daughter, who are on Kimkins, think I am crazy to quit. I guess you just can't win

People do reach their goals with Atkins jonondemsmom. I know of manny.There are a lot of reasons why someone may not reach their goal.. and very few of them have anything to do with the diet itself. Just some examples..

Some people give up too early. Those last few lbs come off very slowly for most people.

Some may be adding back foods they shouldn't while in owl.

Some may have allowed their carb count to creep up to a level where they no longer lose - and they don't notice it because it's so gradual.

Sometimes it's a medical issue, such as thyroid, which make it difficult to lose.

There are also times when we need to step back and re-evaluate our bodies needs. As you lose your body changes and so does it's nutritional needs. You can make some minor changes that will give some great results!

Somtimes.. it's the fact that we set a goal that just isn't realistic. While the doctor says my ideal weight should be around 118 lbs.. there is no way that would be a health weight for me. I don't have the build for that little weight. I'd look anorexic. I look and feel my best at around 135. The Dr. thinks that too much weight. He's wrong.

As far as your question about staying over weight or losing on KK. With KK you run the risk of losing hair, messing up your metabolism, messing up your thyroid, messing up your gallbladder, and messing up your mind (I was starting to have classic anorexic thinking while on kk). If you don't think atkin will work for you, there are many other great low-carb programs you can try. But please be careful where KK is concerned.

I think you will do wonderful, you just need to find something you are comfortable with. And in succeeding on another plan you can show your family that you can lose weight in a safe, healthy, satisfying way. Just give yourself some time to adapt and learn.