Ok, I started my locarb journey about 6 weeks ago. I went on Atkins Induction for the 2 weeks and lost around 6.5pds. I was also keeping my calories to around 1200 per day. I have since decided I might prefer Groves woe so have been working on upping my fats and moderating my protein. The protein part I am having trouble with - according to the formula, I should eat a maximum of 71g of protein per day - I am struggling with that and usually have a bit more. I haven't increased my induction carbs - haven't felt the need to.

So currently I am counting protein and carbs - that's it. I add/eat fat wherever I can and am eating around 20g of carbs and between 80 and 100g of protein per day. I have stalled - not lost any weight for 2 weeks and tried my conquest pants on and they are no looser, so it's not just a scales issue.

What am I doing wrong? Confused about my next move
Can I have some advice please?

Hi
I don't know much about that diet, other then people love it.
I know people are talking about it here
http://www.lowcarbdiscussion.com/index.php...t=75&#entry8538
so can ask questions there.
Your kitties are cute
sandi

Vee....can you post what you are eating?

Personally I'm a fan of protein and eat well over 100 grams a day (usually 130-150, sometimes more), and I'm not familiar with the Groves plan.

If you post what you've been eating someone might be able to point out something that caused them to stall. What is your total calorie count? How many grams of fat/protein/carb (including fiber or not?) are you taking in? How much water and other fluids are you drinking?

Hi CindySue,

Today
Breakfast - flaxseed muffin with butter
Snack - protein shake
Lunch - scrambled eggs, bacon, mushrooms, tomato
Snack - rock melon with cream
Dinner - crustless quiche and brussel sprouts with melted cheese


Yesterday
Breakfast - flaxseed Muffin with butter
Lunch - caesar salad with bacon, egg, anchovies & whole egg mayo
Snack - brazil nuts
Dinner - crustless quiche and mushrooms cooked in butter
Snack - cheesecake with strawberries and cream


All lowcarb stuff - cheesecake, muffins & quiche all homemade. The above two days are fairly representative. I don't have cheesecake all the time and would generally snack more on cheese in my day without the cheescake. Other days I might have eggs for breakfast instead.

Haven't been counting calories or fat. Only really drink water or plain peppermint tea.

Vee,

I don't really see anything wrong with what you are doing. I don't think you can get too hung up on the numbers with Groves. Just try to keep your fat level adequete and don't go too crazy with the protein. Since Groves doesn't count anything in practice there has got to be a lot of wiggle room in the plan. Are you close to goal, like maybe within the last 20 lbs.? Remember Groves in a nutshell is replace your carbs with fat. How much of the fruit are you eating? It's possible your body is just resting and there is no reason or the stall other then that.

Everything from Atkins to Groves needs to be customized to fit your body, so sometimes you've got to bend the rules. I have also heard a lot of dieters talk about the "3rd week stall" which is natural and happens to a lot of people. Let's see what Cindysue's take is on it, she may have some other suggestions as well.

Hey Mel - I only have 11 pds to goal, so I am in the final stages but breaking the 143pd barrier is just not happening. Fruitwise I have really small portions - 50g of the melon and 65g of the strawberries.

Actually, have added my totals for today coz I've finished eating and I had 82.92g of protein and 26.24g carbs. That may be a better ratio???? Have been in the 90's for protein and 20ish for carbs of late. Do you think 20g of carbs is enough?

Personally, I think 20 carbs ISN'T enough.

I also think you should "decide" what plan you're doing... "a little bit of this" and a "little bit of that" very often just doesn't work.

You should NOT be at Induction level carbs by now if you're doing Atkins.

Can't speak to any other plan.

I also think you're not getting enough vegetables. Induction vegetables are 12-15 net carbs... and I don't see how you did that yesterday.

I also think you're focusing on cheese when you should be focusing on vegetables.

With 11 pounds to go, you should be thinking about pre-maintenance soon, and I'm not sure you did OWL?

Try counting your carbs... let the other stuff fall where it will.

Also... it's been my personal experience with "the cheesecake" that I never lost while eating it... I might not have gained... but it's not a "losing" food.

Hey Vee,

I think a few more carbs wouldn't hurt. Congrats on being so close to goal.

Keep tweaking that menu, Vee. We all have gone through this kind of thing and maybe your body is simply adjusting. Just because the scale stops moving doesn't mean it's time to panic. You keep doing what you've been doing and watch that scale go down and your goal pants fitting perfect REAL SOON!

Looks ok, but it's still hard, not knowing what the flax muffins and quiche actually contain....Caesar salad too....how much of each ingredient?

I use FitDay to record everything. Using this, without the muffins and quiche, and using my own protein shake (EAS, 4g fat, 3g carb and 25g protein), I come up with a total of just 629 calories, 42g fat, 22g carb (6 fiber), and 46 protein. Now obviously your totals are higher with the muffin and quicke, but it still doesn't seem to be enough to me.

Personally I'd like to see much higher calories, like at least 1200/day. Even for someone short and small build, 1200 calories should still be a deficit from what you need!

I am, like I said, a protein fan. Unless you have end stage liver disease or kidney disease protein should NOT be a problem, even if you have a large amount. (OK...one more qualifier and that's for Type1 diabetics, who should watch protein intake, but 100+ grams still shouldn't be "too much").

I don't have a problem with only 20 grams of carbs. Almost all of your carbs, however, should mainly come from veggies with a small percentage from full fat dairy.

Here's how I eat....I aim for at least 100 grams of protein and keep my carbs (net, subtracting fiber only) under 30-40g/day. I use whatever fat I want or need according to what I'm eating. The shakes I have are the EAS ones, 25g/protein and then I add liquid egg whites for more protein and heavy cream for more fat. Even with this being a liquid, it usually holds me for at least 4 hours....because of the protein.

Another thing to consider. Are you using artificial sweeteners? Like in the cheesecake? If so, you might want to stop using them for a bit and see if they are affecting your loss. For me they're not a problem, but many people say they stall with AS.

Typical day for me:
Breakfast:
Protein shake (with egg whites and cream)
Lunch:
Salad with at least 2 c lettuce and 4 ounces meat (usually chicken, and usually closer to 8 ounces) as well as 1-2T full fat dressing. (mostly Caesar salads, but also cobb salad, taco salad and just plain salads with meat on top or on the side)
Dinner:
6-8 ounces of meat
2 veggies, usually 1 hot and 1 cold (Brussels Sprouts are one of my favorites!)
Snacks, usually 1X/day:
Nuts, cheese, veggies dipped in dressing, jello or some homemade desert.

I get about 1500-1600 calories most days, with mostly less than 40grams carb per day. My fat and protein rations are different each day. If I eat white meat chicken it's going to be lower than if I eat a nice fatty piece of beef or pork.

Biggest piece of advice I have is to read, read, read!!! Go yo your local library (or book store) and check out the many plans that are out there. If you don't like added fat, Atkins might not be right for you.....and if you want higher carb levels South Beach might be the right one!! We're all different and we all have to figure out what works for us....but we can't do that without understanding the plans!!

In addition to Jimmy's blog, there is Regina Wilshire's, Dr Mike's (Michael Eades of Protein Power), Johny Bowden's and many more!! The more you read the better off you'll be.

Hope this helps some.

I agree with what Melodie said about the 3 week stall. That's very common. Are you sure that you're eating that much protein? I don't see much meat on your menu at all and you seem to be relying on cheese as your primary protein source. I don't think that cheese is as high in protein as meat and that much cheese could be the reason for your stall. I've never had a problem with cheese though except when I go overboard and eat a half pound of it made into cheese crisps or something.

On the other hand, my experience with cheesecake is the opposite of sjm's. I tend to lose a lot better when I have some for several days in a row and even more than once a day. My guess is that it's the high fat content that made it work so well for me. What's great about cheesecake is that it's so filling and satisfying. It's also nutritious enough to qualify as breakfast and dessert at the same time.

I think your menus look pretty good other than being a little cheese-heavy.

This is my opinion here---not enough fat there---sure you have eggs and cheese---and the anchovies are pretty good---but how about a steak in there---

I have a problem with fruits---they tend to cause a severe insulin reaction in me and kick me straight out of ketosis---the butter is a nice fat---but coconut oil would be better to keep you in ketosis

something I have started doing is sauteing veggies in almond or cashew butter---got the idea from Sara over at Mark's Daily Apple---it is awesome---

As for the calories---I really have a problem when I see calories that low--I cringe when I see others going below 1500

the best way to judge how many calories you need eat day is to check your BMR---then drop your calories 200 below that but no further---then do some exercise to increase the calorie deficit

because my WOE is so high fat---I can eat more calories---I don't use fitday but signed up the other day just to check on how I am doing calorie wise---one of my WLS friends wanted to know---here was my break down:

Calories Eaten Today
grams cals %total
Total: 2028
Fat: 189 1705 84%
Sat: 78 698 34%
Poly: 26 230 11%
Mono: 74 666 33%
Carbs: 22 53 3%
Fiber: 8 0 0%
Protein: 70 278 14%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

bfst---1 egg, 1bacon
snack--celery w/ cream cheese and pecans
lunch pork roast, zucchini/almond butter, green beans w/bacon , onions,
snack 1 deviled egg, olives, pickle
dinner ribeye steak herbed butter/ blue cheese
bedtime low carb homemade yogurt w/ walnuts

and I'm losing weight on this

I'm not a vegetarian but not a big meat eater either. I enjoy the occasional steak but probably wouldn't if I ate it more often. I've been making a quiche once a week - spinach or salmon or bacon made with eggs, heavy cream, cheese and the filling. I add butter/olive oil to all my cooking, eat heavy cream, add cream to my shake and add lots of dressing/mayo/aioli to my salads. I eat fresh fish about once a week, tinned tuna 2-3 times a week, chicken 2-3 times a week. I see what you mean tho - heavy reliance on eggs/cheese/bacon - I love cheese but don't think I overdo it.

I think I will -

1. Up my vege intake
2. Up my carbs to 25g/day
3. Try to get 15g of carbs from veges

What do you think????

Kanjivee:

I don't know Groves as much (although I feel like I do because I've read his website from cover to cover and I quote him often....) I think I have to agree with BamaGirl. Calories are irrelevant and I don't see enough meat. Whenever I see snacks, I get a little leery because that to me, means you're not eating enough fat and protein at your main meals. Try to include some good animal protein at each meal.

When you eat your first "go round" at your meal, the protein, fat and carbs, take an assessment. If you're still hungry, eat more meat. Let that be the thing that fills you up. Melodie can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is where Atkins and Groves come together. You can't get full on anything that has carbs, like cheese, nuts or even salads. Those are supposed to be controlled. Eating fattier cuts of meat does the trick because your body can absorb a much higher percentage of animal fat than it can from plants and oils. If, and only if, you're getting full in this way, I don't believe it's necessary to count carbs. This is the true lesson of Induction. To teach you how to organize your plate in the proper ratio.

When I argue that calories are irrelevant, I'm mostly talking about fat and protein. With carbs, you can't say the same thing. Those carbs add up thus the need to control them. They also don't let you know that you're full like a good piece of steak can. You can't overeat on fatty protein. It will definitely let you know when you've had enough.

Keep at it and you'll see results.

Charles

Make sure you're getting some fish in your diet, too. I love tilapia browned in a little coconut oil.

You can actually overdo it with the cream, because it has some carbs in it. Some people I know have stalled from the cream. Once they cut way back, they began losing again.

As close as you are to goal weight, it's normal for you to have stalled a bit. Don't expect big whooshes as you get closer to your goal weight. Take it slowly, tweak your menu to suit your needs, get more veggies, and be sure to drink enough water.

It's ok to eat more fat, like everybody has already said. Eat enough protein to be satisfied. You need enough (as the Drs. Eades say, adequate protein) to support your lean muscle mass. And fat is self-limiting, anyway. It's hard to pig out on fat!

I know many people who have upped their veggies a bit, and started losing again. It's hard to wrap your brain around that one, I know, but it works for many, many people.

I sure hope you find that "magic formula" that works for you. And even if you don't lose another ounce, you probably feel a lot healthier than you did before, and that counts for a lot.

Hey Nita,

I was just posting in the Groves section that I finally saw some movement on the scales - finally broke thru the 143pd barrier, which I haven't done in years!!!! Only dropped 1.1pds but at this point any loss is good. I am working at getting my ratios of fat, protein and carbs to the ones recommended by Groves - am tweaking day by day and making progress I notice your plan is Atkins modifies with bits of other plans - can you elaborate????