Some of the conversations we've had today made me think of this topic and really it could fall under any of the "Mission" forum topics.

I'll go first. I see myself as short and wide. I can't stand to see my image in a plate glass window or door and often avert my eyes. What is it about those windows, because when I look in a real mirror, I don't look quite that wide. I hate to look at my shadow on the ground because it looks too wide at the bottom. I still buy a size large sweater even though I really wear a medium and when I get off the last 2 sizes I'll wear a small. Will I still be buying a size large then? I'm always surprised by attention from the opposite sex even though I get my share of it. I think this "short girl" is seriously in need of a self image makeover.

I've let it all hang out here, so how about you.

I've gotten better over time, Melodie, since I've lost my weight, but the mental picture of who I WAS for so many years is still hard to overcome. Part of it is the hanging skin on my belly where I lost weight and another part of it is I still don't "feel" in my head that I'm anything but that 400-pound man I was. This is no doubt strange to those who have never struggled with weight, but it is THE issue even after you have lost your weight. Perhaps this is why so many people gain back their weight so quickly after losing it.

GREAT TOPIC OF CONVERSATION!

I am kinda shy, uh embarrassed to comment on this one, but maybe my experience will help someone a little bit, so here goes....

My attitude has done almost a 180 in the last few years. I used to do the window aversion thing. Definitely.... I hadn't thought of it that way, but wow, that brought back memories. I think it started for me sometime shortly after childhood. But--honest--I don't do it any more; I just see myself walking toward the door, and I don't think any bad thoughts. :-)

Sometimes good ones! Last week walking into Wal-Mart I did think, "Woohoo! I almost have my old shape back!" :-) (I never thought that way when I was slim in my 20's! No way!)

I'm not comfortable saying more on a public board, but I will PM a couple of things that were really helpful for me in this area, on request.

This is a loaded question. I don't think I have body image problems, in fact, I had the opposite of you Melodie, and was still buying sizes that were too small after I had gained weight.

I'm self conscious of the scars on my face and back from acne that I didn't grow out of until my mid to late 20s. My mom and I used to fight all the time, because she thought washing my face would cure the problem. That, and she had some weird fascination with popping my zits. I can remember times when we would fight just because I wouldn't let her pop them. She drug me to doctor after doctor, and I would have to use all of these creams and ointments, it was horrible.

Also, I used to have really messed up teeth, and did not get braces until my mid to late 20s. My teeth were so bad that even after they were straight, some had such bad stains that I ended up having to get a crowns.

It is amazing to me how our own image of ourselves is so much different than the actual physical image.

I have always been overweight. When I started my new WOE I really examined the psychological side of weight loss (thank you jimmy). It made me remember a time in high school that I had never even realized.

I played football when I was a freshman. During that time I was eating better (the zone) and getting exercise every day. I remember that I weight only 180 pounds and I had a lot of muscle. The crazy thing is, I never realized that I wasn't fat. I was still embarrassed to shower after practice. I didn't want anyone to see me with my shirt off so I would be late on the field and the last to leave after practice. I look back at pictures now and see that I was in fantastic shape but my mind and self image did not allow me to realize it.
What is funny now is that my goal weight is more than what I weighed at that point.

Sometimes our own mental image of ourselves can be our biggest stumbling block in our weight loss journey.

Someone in another forum once mentioned that if you think like a skinny person you will be a skinny person. My interpretation of that is you have to realize that your new WOE is permanent. Your cheats are rare and small. A person thinking they are fat will have a piece of pizza and think "oh well I blew it. I might as well eat 9 pieces while I have the chance." A skinny person will enjoy the one piece and get right back to normal--eating right.

This post is really just to "bump" the topic. I am surprised the thread did not get more action. It seems like a very interesting subject matter.

I grew up with an awful self image. I was overweight to obese from age 10 on. I had severe cystic acne that was so bad it actually hurt and did not respond to treatment. It only completely went away once I went on the pill in anticipation of my wedding. Though my self image could still improve, it is a lot better. I still have what I call "fat days" where no matter what I put on I feel fat when I look at myself. Those days drive my husband nuts. I have actually cried because I have "nothing to wear". I also have "hot days" where I feel great about the way I look. It helps that I have a husband who always makes positive comments about my appearance and can't keep his hands off of me. Most days fall somewhere in between. I know I am a work in progress, but I also know if I don't love myself as I am I will never get where I want to be.

Thanks everybody for opening up. Sometimes that's really hard to do especially when the subject matter is self esteem. I find it somehow liberating to talk about it. It get's it out and you find out you really aren't that different than anybody else. Jowest thanks for bumping. I think it's an important topic too.

Whenever I gain weight it goes to my stomach first, and it is difficult to find clothes that will fit right. Shopping was a nightmare, and I always got the biggest shirts that I thought would cover up my stomach and also my rear. I would not let people take my picture, and when they did it was so awful to look at myself. I was very self conscious, and was shy. I would not talk so that attention would not come in my direction, and so people would not look at me.

I am finally starting to feel comfortable with clothes and shopping again. I don't mind pictures to much these days, but I have not overcome the shyness.

I know what you mean about pictures. I have a very large head anyway. Tack on the extra pounds and WOOOOO MAMA! I would always avoid pictures like the plague, or I would make a funny face or creat some kind of diversion with my hands so the attention is elseware. I have recently taken some after pics that I will post in my journal probably tonight. It is amazing to see my face when I am truly happy. I didn't mind the pics at all because I know my face looks so much thinner. It isn't where I would like it but I have another 29 pounds to lose.

My new fear is my man breasts (or moobies). Those are the latest hot topic. I used to just crack jokes about them constantly because I knew I could not hide them. Now I am really scared because they are not decreasing. I am becoming a slender b cup!! I know it will work itself out.

I know what you all mean ...

I've always been overweight. I weighed 10lbs when I was born. So "suddenly" being normal has created some issues of anger for me.

For instance, this morning I was late for a meeting, so was jogging from my office parking lot to the front door of my building. A man sort of on the side on the grass smoking a cigarette takes off running for the door so he could get there before me to hold it open for me. Imagine that ... a smoker ... he could have given himself a heart attack!

And yesterday this guy pulling TWO suitcases with one hand and carrying a Starbuck's in the other hand INSISTED that he open that same door for me. I kept saying: "Let me open it for you, but he wouldn't have it."

Now, you're probably all thinking: "What's the problem with that? They're just being kind." Well, on one level, I believe that. But then on another level I kind of feel angry. Do you HAVE to be in a normal weight range to have people be kind to you? And also ... "You wouldn't be opening that door for me if you knew who I REALLY was."

So that's the sort of thing that I'm dealing with. Angry and feeling like some sort of imposter. I can't really tell anyone this outside of this forum, because it sort of sounds conceited to be telling people that men are opening doors for me and I'm mad about it.

I'm hoping that I'll eventually get over it. But I have to tell you, since losing weight it's made me even MORE sensitive to others caustic and insensitive comments about overweight people.

Margarita

Well, Margarita, I'm an equal opportunity door-opening man, too, because I do it all the time for women of all shapes, sizes, and ages. It's something I was taught at an early age and I've always done it. It's a sign that I respect you and should be taken that way.

But I hear you about the changes that happen when you lose weight. People DO treat you differently and that should make you even more aware of those who need to be shown love and support. Christine and I see it all the time when we go out to restaurants and it breaks my heart.

We can change the dynamic and hopefully give them hope that they can lose weight and get healthy too.

Great topic! I've fought fat all my life, even from childhood. Like others, I've lost and gained, but I know I've got to do LC for a lifetime. I like it, it works for me, so no excuses!

I've always seen myself as a 'fat guy' and like others, I tire of the ugly remarks that people can make. Those remarks can cause you to believe you will never be anything but fat. But, you know what? I refuse to receive them any longer! I've made up my mind, I'm gonna' be a normal weight person and I'm gonna' overcome all the negatives. I've decided to put the past behind me and be a new me.

I thought I posted already, I guess I was not logged in first. Sorry if this ends up being a dup.

I am not sure if I ever mentioned that I didn't start having weight issues until I was about 25, and then it was a a slow gain kindof thing. I didn't even realize how big I had gotten until I saw myself in a picture. Since joining here, I have been trying to find a good "before" one, and have been surprised that I don't even recognize myself in most of the photos I have. I keep thinking I wonder who that is, and then realize it's me.

My hair is much darker, my eyes seem smaller and darker, my nose seems bigger, even my ears seem to sit on my head differently. Am I just weird, or does weight really do this? Maybe it's perception? Anyone else feel this way? I have looked at some of the other before and afters, and don't really notice these issues on others. The only difference I see in other people is the weight.

I did have some dental work done, that is pretty obvious, and its effected the way my lips sit on my teeth (not sure if that makes sense) so my smile is a little differnt.

Mararita, I am an equal opportunity door opener too. And the only time I will run to open a door is for an elderly person

Ron, good for you brother! No one should have to put up with negative remarks, especially things that have no constructive value.

As a still morbidly obese person after losing some 90+ lbs, I still feel and look obese. And in all honestly, due to hanging skin, I think I look like a freak. Not just nekid either, but even in undergarments and a swimsuit - which I will NEVER wear in public again, unless I have some serious plastics.

When I was over 300lbs, I felt like I looked like everyone else. Just fat like a lot of people around me here in the midwest. Now I look freakish. My arms are bigger than most 400+lb women I've met/seen. It feels like a cruel joke to me.

I think my face is pretty, until I see a picture and see the sagging skin at my neck and feel sad again. You see I think in my mind I look better than I really do. Then I get a glimpse of myself in a mirror out in public or I take the full length one out of the closet.

I'm not as bad as I was. I went through a serious depression at the beginning of the year. When I was trying to find a coat. My arms are about a Size 26/28 and my upper body is a size Large (or even medium in some tops). I either had to wear a tent to get them over my arms, or go without. Four stores later, I finally found one. It's super tight and I find it hard to drive in, but it works.

How's that for raw! I live for the day I can get 40lbs off and start looking into plastics. I'm not looking to be perfect, just normal.

Simon I can relate to what you said. I always joke and tell everybody I can tell when I've lost weight, my eyes and my mouth look bigger.

Great responses everyone---seems we all share many of the same traits. I lost most of my weight very quickly---so I could not get adjusted to the new size. I never bought clothes--I still wore my size 6x clothes when I was really in a 10---not a pretty picture----as my mom loves to point out---so many years I hid behind a wall of fat---now I hide in fat clothes---most of my clothes are really about 2 sizes too big---I'm still so self conscious of the stomach area, I cover it up.

I'm one of the lucky people who won't need too much plastic surgery for the loose skin---just my stomach---my arms and legs are really not that bad

back when I was growing up---I always thought I was HUGE---but looking back at pics---it really wasn't that bad---I wore a 14 which by todays sizes would be a 12

body dysmorphia is a problem for most people even the "skinny" ones---we are bombarded everyday with images of what should be attractive---that's just the medias opinion---

I still catcha glimpse of myself in the mirror and wonder who is that---I still have trouble seeing myself this size

Amen to that Bamagal.

How exactly does "sausagey" look, Susan!

BamaGal, I have the same issues with the loose skin in my tummy and inner thighs. I haven't been fat for over three years and this stupid skin makes me feel as fat as I did when I weighed 410 pounds sometimes.

Damn - why do we always see the bad bits???? My husband loses it when I do that - he thinks I look terrific and I do scrub up pretty well but when I look in the mirror I see the wobbly bits - I especially do that when I'm feeling down in the first place. It's really difficult to change such a fixed mindset. I was the fat kid at school right thru my teen years - kids are nasty and I was teased alot. In the 2 months of our summer break, right before my last year at high school, I lost about 25pds and you should have seen the faces when I went back to school (including the guy who would turn out to be my hubby!) The attention was dizzying. But let me tell you, on my worst days I still feel like that fat girl at school : (

It never goes away.

As a young girl, I developed a poor self-image. My brother and his wife would make fat jokes about me even though I was not the slightest bit overweight. I started going on different diets when I was thirteen.

I never had a boyfriend until I was 17 years old, and I married him before I was 18. He was ten years older than me and had been divorced. He never put me down and always told me I was beautiful although I packed on quite a bit of weight with my first two pregnancies. (The first was a healthy boy, the second was a still-born boy at 6 1/2 months both delivered via C-section.) When I was 8 months pregnant with my daughter and feeling like (as well as resembling) a beached whale, I discovered my 'loving' 33-year-old husband was having an affair with a 17-year-old beauty queen. He stopped the affair, and I stayed with him for the children, but my self-esteem plummeted immediately.

I still have issues with comparing myself with pretty women. My new (and last) sweet husband now has to contend with that. He loves me dearly and thinks I'm great, but I still get a sick feeling when we are out, and I see these beautiful women around us. I feel like that little girl who could never be thin enough or the rejected, replaced fat, repulsive woman who was so wounded inside.

I still see myself that way. I don't know if I will ever get to the point that I can feel really good about myself. I am ashamed to go out in public at times. I am trying to overcome this frame of mind, but it is so hard to come to terms with these feelings.

I didn't mean to write a book! I just love the fact that this is a safe haven where I am not judged by appearances and feel so welcomed and loved.

CarolAnn, I mean this with every fiber of my being--YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL! Did you hear me? YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL! No matter what anyone has ever said or done or anything towards you, all I can see now if a VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN!

You are not alone in how you feel and I am sure others are happy to see you opened up about yourself because they've been dying to say the same thing but were too ashamed or afraid of ridicule to say it. So that makes you not just BEAUTIFUL, but also very STRONG and COURAGEOUS, too!

Keep your head up and never let anyone take away the BEAUTY you possess!

it seems like many of us have the same issues---when you are obese or morbidly obese that mindset stays with you long after the pounds drop off

most don't accept compliments well, most are quick to point out their own flaws, the inner fat child fights to protect you from being hurt by society

but sometimes you gotta tell that fat child to shut the heck up---you are not that person anymore---you are worthy, you are wonderful, you are gorgeous

positive self talk works wonders to drown out those non-ending records in your head telling you negative things

when those thoughts start---stop immediately and tell yourself that it is not true---you are somebody

Thank you so much, Jimmy. It is so nice of you to say that. It is truly a step forward for me to even admit some of that stuff, so I know I am making progress! It feels so good to be able to share such deep hurts and suppressed emotions in a safe environment. I think I speak for many as well as myself.

ETA: I didn't really make myself clear before; I divorced my husband of 20 years two years ago. I am now happily remarried to a wonderful man who loves me!

I agree too BamaGal! We can be our own worst enemy most of the time.

What I've noticed is that whatever weight I am, I always want to be just a few pounds lighter. It's never enough . My lightest was 110, which was OK, or maybe a fraction too thin, but I still really wanted to lose another five. Luckily, my on-line LC friends convinced me not to go any lower, and actually I've gained a few since then, but always stayed below 120. Some days I feel fat, some days I feel OK. And the truth is that I'm not at all fat, but whether it's because of media images, or just wanting to see the same number on the scale now as I did 30 years ago (I'm 46), I don't know. It's crazy - but for some reason, being happy with my weight has been much harder for me than reaching my goal was .

It's true we do usually want more. There seems to be a lag between our new physical image and what the mind sees as us.

Iggy,

I can tell you that "these eyes" think you look wonderful. I saw your pics. You didn't just lose weight, you changed your entire shape. I'm jealous of those abs. You have a great sense of style. Love your hair and glasses!

Go Iggy, Go Iggy!

How do i see myself?

i think this is a very hard question for me to answer. For 2 years now i have been taking anti depressants for this very reason. I have almost severe body dysmorphia. Before i got my treatment i used to obssess heavily, i would be convinced that people stared at me in the street, convinced that any relationship that broke down was due to my weight and be so self conscious that i would stay in. I did the opposite, im not an emotional eater, when im upset, excited, stressed, depressed i dont eat. This went on for about 6 months, i was so anxious about it that i didnt eat for a long time, this is when i had anervous breakdown, got some help and actually put a bit of weight back on.

From the age of 16-19 i was in a very violent and abusive relationship, this man would tell me repeatedly i was llucky to have him, that i was disgusting and no one else would ever want me, that damaged me for a long time, and now i know that was just his way of controlling me, but it didnt help things

Now when i look in the mirror, i see the figure i want, i see the bits i need to get rid of, i can almost draw the outline inside my own shape and see what it will look like. My breasts had bothered me since i was 17 years old, they had always been very small no matter whether i was very overweight or not. So i sorted that out this year and got my new boobs, i love them and now its just the rest of me to sort

I dont think im attractive, and i often look at people and ask my friends or fiance, am i as big as her or him? and they cant believe i would even think that, i guess what im trying to say is that i see myself alot larger than i actually am i think.

and i get worried that that will never stop.

Paula, as a 100% heterosexual man who can be the judge of such things, I think you are ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!

Pretty Paula you are "pretty". "Control freak" type men try to tear you down to control you. The problem is when you rid yourself of them it's hard to rid yourself of the "brainwashing" they have put on you. Many women have walked a few miles in your shoes. You remind me of this lady I used to work with who was a very normal weight. When she went to the mall with her husband she would always ask him, "is my butt as big as that womans." LOL. So you're not the only one. I don't always ask the question, but I certainly do think it. Have you ever walked into a room and wondered if you were the "fattest one" in the room? I've done it and so have most of the people on this site.

I'm glad you are healing. Keep walking towards the light. Best to you!

Melodie, you are so right. I hated going anywhere because I was sure I was always going to be the fattest one there. I started doing things anyway and I was shocked at a banquet dinner to realize that so many women and men were larger than I was. I was so shocked because I had been so caught up in my image in my head that I had atopped looking around at others and until that evening I had not really gotten the fact that our society has indeed become "supersized".

Does anyone have any suggestions on what worked to help them start adjust their thinking on their body image?

Love your new avatar, Lisa! WOW! You're a LOT skinnier in this pic than that previous one.

Hmmmmm......I think I see myself as I really am. A grandma halfway to her goal. Not nearly as fat as I used to be, but still way fatter than I want to be. And like some of you, on some days I feel so fat, unattractive, other days I feel great, so much thinner, wearing smaller clothes, eating right.

Like Yvonne, I have monster arms, have trouble getting sleeves to fit unless they are knit, never wear short sleeves because the sleeves creep up, wouldn't be caught dead in public in a sleeveless top. And I'm shaped weird. I have large hips, wrists, knees and ankles, big calves, but small shoulders and short arms & legs. Conjures up a pretty funny looking lady, don't you think? It's hard to find clothes that the sleeves and pant legs aren't way too long.

I wasn't fat growing up, but had a fat family, mom & most of my brothers & sisters were. Didn't start gaining until pregnancy, and it's stuck with me all these years. I had some really bad self-esteem issues, but as time went on, I realized that I'm a great person, a great wife & mom & grandma, my family appreciates me for what I am inside, regardless of what I am outside. We always taught our kids to not judge people by their outside, and they have done well with that. I'm well respected at work, have great friends, of all shapes, sizes, and colors. Losing nearly 100 lbs hasn't changed any of that, and losing another 100 lbs won't change any of that, either, I'll just be smaller and healthier, and look better in my clothes.