Something I forgot to mention in my introduction post is that, aside from the 20 net carbs/day, I also try to stay around 1,000 calories/day. Does anyone else count calories too? I was told it's normal for people to start counting calories when they're within 10 lbs of their goal weight.

Yes, I count calories too. Most of the time. I try to stay around 1200 calories on most days. I have done Atkins in the past and not counted calories. I'm short (only 5'0 tall) so I really need to count calories to have a good loss. I never thought of counting calories until I did Kimkins, however, I never did the 600 calorie stuff, I always stuck with 1200 or on low day 1000. I am no longer doing Kimkins, but back to Atkins. Best of luck to you Jordan.

Melodie
http://shortgirlslowcarb.blogspot.com

I have never really counted calories, per se, while I've been livin' la vida low-carb. But I do see merit in looking for ways to reduce calorie consumption as you get closer to goal. That's what I'm doing right now in my quest to be under 200 pounds. Reducing calories slightly to try to make that happen is more effective than simply eating low-carb.

But when you have a TON of weight to lose, counting calories is not necessary. I've blogged about this issue because people who are new to low-carb should know it's better to understand why carb restriction is important than to confuse and muddy the waters with calorie restriction, too!

Can anyone address the relationship between being a person who is a hard loser and calorie restriction?

What is a "hard loser"?

I don't actually count calories, but I did find that in order to maintain, it was necessary to control them a bit. I counted for a while, and 1600-1700 is about what I eat to maintain. I gain if I eat more than that, and lose if I eat less. (That's for a 5' 2", 115 lb, 46 year old female.) I don't actually count now, I'm just aware that a Tbs or so of mayo or cream is OK, but I can't eat them by the cupful. An ounce of cheese or nuts is OK for a snack, but not half a pound.

Dr. Atkins defined it as "Inability to lose weight or to continure to lose until a reasonable goal weight is reached on either a diet containing 1000 caloires or on a 25 gram carbohydrate diet." He then refined it as someone for whom induction eating does not result in weight loss. The good doctor provided a few alternatives, but what has me so confused is that most of those involve less than 1000 calories or just lean meat. I have been following the Kimkins controversy and the biggest criticisms would also seem to apply here. Can anyone help me sort these conflicting ideas out?

But the key is, Eva, things like the Fat Fast are only meant for the VERY short term. Dr. Atkins never intended on someone eating a calorie-restricted plan like that for more than a few days. And it is only intended for those who are most resistant to carb-restricted weight loss.

I agree that artificially lowering calories is a VERY BAD idea not just for weight loss, but also for health. There's a basic level of calories that the body needs to function properly and you can't get that from a diet with 1,000 calories or less.

I have to count calories, but not in the way people usually think of it. If I just leave myself to my own devices and eat when I'm hungry, I'll probably eat one meal a day. I will also gain weight. My BMR is about 1500 calories so I aim for about 1800 and no more than 2000. I've gotten slack about making myself eat lately, and as a result I'm back up to 162 from a recent low of 157. When I eat enough calories, I typically lose weight pretty fast...around a half pound a day.

Nikki

You are so right, Nikki! Calories are so naturally kept in check that you don't NEED to count them, especially early on in major weight loss efforts.

That's why I ate every 2-3 hours when I was losing weight in 2004 on Atkins. You can "forget" to eat as hard as that is to believe!

I absolutely count calories too. I didn't start off on Atkins . . . When I finally got to Atkins, I got lukewarm results. Atkins didn't start working until I factored in calories.

THANKS for sharing that, Fitlanta, and welcome to my new forum. It goes back to what works for the individual. I've never counted calories and have done well with maintaining the weight I've lost for the most part. And I never counted at all during my weight loss.

Still don't count them, but let them get naturally lowered by reducing the excess. Works every time!

HAPPY to see you here and hope to see more from you in the future.

You havew to look at your BMR---if you cut your calories too low---and 1000 is way too low---you set yourself up to regain----Carolyn made a post that addresses this---you need to check it out

info about BMR

Calorie counting = prison.

Is there a way to calculate your BMR?

I couldn't count calories either, Jeff. It would be prison. For most people, 1200 calories is a MINIMUM and you go from there for your own dietary needs.

Wow, That link is an eye opener. According to the link I need 1830 just for my BMR. But I have never had a doctor that recommended a diet over 1200-1400. I need to do some research on this topic. Would the Eades books or website be a good place to start?

I don't find counting calories so hard. It's no harder than setting up a dang Fitday roster. Low carb is somewhat restrictive, so when I do my daily Excel spreadsheets, with tallies for both cals and carbs, it goes pretty fast. I eat one of 2 breakfasts everyday, my snacks are always from 3-4 choices, lunch and dinners and along the same lines. I have a hearty appetite and can easily stall myself by eating too many calories.

I read in the Biggest Loser book that to lose weight, you should generally eat 7x your weight. Mind you, there are some exceptions - not eating less than 1,200 cals/day w/o medical supervision - but I've found this to be helpful. I lose best on 6x my weight. But we all have our own particularities to work through. This is what works for me.

I had disappointing results on 7x my weight and no weight loss at all on 8x my weight. U've got 2 do u.

Some can get by w/o counting calories. I'm not among them.

You all have mentioned calories but what about fat grams? Are any of you counting those as well? What's too low and is there a too high?

You need ample fat intake, but keep in mind fat has 9 calories per gram compared with 4 calories per gram of carbohydrate or protein. But you NEED fat in your diet...even saturated fat.

I don't count calories for the sake of maintaining a limit. I do use FitDay as a way of accountability. I like to review it with respect to weight loss. I am a very analytical person. Sometimes I copy and paste and overlay my charts to see the different results. I do think that I see when my calories start trending down my weight loss stalls and a couple of days of higher calories is usually the start of another loss period. I know there are alot other variables like kinds of food etc. but it keeps me busy LOL.

BTW Jimmy, you said you were going to be away, but see you are still on board this morning. I wanted to share that I use a laptop and have a wireless card from my mobile phone company and can be online anywhere is the USA my phone works. It is about $60 a month. No roaming charges.

I don't really count fat grams, b/c counting calories inherently reduces fat. I'm not doing a low fat diet by any means, but since I'm only doing 40g carbs/day (320 cals), the other 1500-1700 cals must come from proteins and fats. I live, obviously from my name, in the "A," and there's a chicken wing place on just about every corner, plus Walmart and Sam's sell GREAT frozen completely cooked wings that you can just fry or bake and eat. I love wings, b/c they taste good and they're so versatile, but between lunch, snacks, and dinner, I had gotten in the habit of eating 15-20/day. Then I saw Jimmy get stunning results on Kimkins (well, his version), and I reduced my wing consumption in favor of leaner meats. Problem solved. I actually started losing weight again, and it was a good feeling to FINALLY see results.

It's funny how a slight reduction in fat can naturally lower calories. Not crazy-like, but just a little...works well.

That's exactly what happened to me. Just cutting back on cream & butter, and mayo, and I saw a significant loss in 2 months, after no loss in over a year. There is no way I'd cut out fat entirely, it's too vital for our health, but we really don't need to go overboard, either.

I'm trying to follow the original Atkins 1972 plan, it's the one I did first time. Just counting carbs, not fooling around with "net" carbs, just a plain and simple plan, has been what's worked best for me. And I really love low carb because we don't have to count calories. We need to be aware of portion control, but not having to calculate calories is what appealed to me when I discovered low carb.

Back in the 60s there was a book written by a Dr. Taller, "Calories Don't Count". I even have a copy of the book. My family tried it. My brother lost a lot of weight on it. Dr. Taller had you take corn oil and use corn oil margarine every day. (Trying to swallow a tbs of corn oil is very, very difficult!) You cut carbs back to about 60 a day, and he allowed you to eat a potato each day. That was my first introduction to low carb, but Dr. Atkins refined the plan in the 70s, and his original version worked very well. It was just difficult to follow low carb in a low-fat, low-calorie world, without a support mechanism in place. Now that we have so many internet low carb communities, there is no reason for a person to try to wing it on their own. You HAVE to have support. When you are bombarded by low fat this, low calorie that, it's nice to have a safe haven to get away from it all.

Whether you count only carbs, whether you count carbs and calories, or carbs, calories and fat, you still need a support system. I'm so glad that there is a place for all of us to go, declare what we do for success, ponder others' success, share our ideas, glean ideas from others, it's vital to have support, without judgment.

Thanks LadyBug. I'm using my iPhone while on vacation.

I try to do it at random times, I don't like keeping track of what I eat and I eat pretty much the same stuff anyway.
But if I slow down, I do it for a day or so so I can see where I need to change things. I want to see fat level and all.
I have lost 30 pounds so far !!!!!
sandi

Congratulations Sandi!!

Way to go, Sandi! That is fantastic!!!

Hi - I have been low carbing since Friday last and haven't lost at all. I have been sticking to less than 20g per day and not counting calories at all. I had a look at my intake and thought that the only thing blowing me out of the water calorie wise could be nuts (am eating Brazil and Pecan nuts) approx 1.2g of carbs per 30g (1oz) and I have been eating about 4 to 5 ozs per day mainly as a snack item when I get peckish - sooooooo that means 820 to 1020 calories a day just in the nuts. How can that not be a factor??? Anyway, I am lowering my nut intake to 1 to 2 ozs a day and just tracking my calories a bit to see if that makes a difference - here's hoping!!!!!!!

I don't know about other plans, but Atkins doesn't allow nuts during either induction or the early weeks of OWL.

Which LC book/program are you following?

Kanjivee:

Congratulations on your decision to "low carb." First of all, nuts and seeds are not allowed on Induction. Calories are not the issue for you. You need to make sure you read the "New Diet Revolution" very closely. On page 122, the rules of Induction are spelled out. Rule 4 is waiting for you. It's important to follow them to get the most from the approach.

Some people can deviate in all sorts of ways from the rules and have success, but each body is different. Atkins is about finding the correct ratio of fat, protein and carbohydrate that is unique to your body and metabolism. "You are allowed to eat liberally of combinations of fat and protein in the form of poultry, fish, shellfish, eggs and red meat, as well as of pure, natural fat in the form of butter, mayonnaise, olive oil, safflower, sunflower and other vegetable oils (preferably expeller pressed or cold pressed)."

Instead of counting calories, you need to count carbohydrate which must come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables. You get about three cups, loosely packed, plus one cup of other vegetables. There is a list of acceptable vegetables on page 126.

How much do you have to lose? People with more weight to lose generally lose the most weight during Induction. If you have just a few pounds to lose, it may take longer to see the results you want.

You may be metabolically resistant and the amount of carbohydrate you can tolerate may be low, as mine is. However, it's too early to tell that. You must also get moving. Exercise is non-negotiable. I recommend some weight training to increase your muscle mass, which will burn more fat. The recommended types of food feed your metabolism. After the initial carbohydrate withdrawal, you should have increased energy, which hopefully you will use to add exercise.

Basically, what I'm saying is that before you can contribute to the "whether calories count" debate, you must ensure that you are actually doing the approach correctly. Once you are, then we can talk about the next level.

All the best,

Charles

Getting alot of my info from:-

http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/

with the "Allowed Foods" in the Low Carbing Guidelines section:-

http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/guidelines.htm

This particular one allows nuts.

I only have about 11 pounds to lose but tend to yoyo abit so I want to lose it once and for all and keep it off

Just learning as I go along... that's why I'm here

If that's not working for you, then you might want to try Atkins or Protein Power. Both of these diet books are readily available at almost every library in the country and used copies are readily available for $1 or less online.

If you do move on, I think it's *very* important to read the whole book and follow it as written. IMHO, reading a web site synopsis just isn't a good substitute.

I don't believe I would be losing on that plan either, so don't be discouraged! :-) Something different might be just right for you.

Absolutely Valerie! If one version of livin' la vida low-carb isn't working, then try another. I believe there is a way that works for each individual out there and it's up to them to find it.

I think I am pretty close to following Atkins except for the nuts - these are a favourite of mine so they help get me thru. I have started seeing some progress on the scales so I will limit them to 1 oz per day (204cal and 1.2g carbs) and I am increasing my non starchy veges. My question is - does anyone know why nuts are not allowed during induction????? They are full of good oils and fibre and quite low in carbs. Just wondering..... Also - how does red wine (in moderation) fit with Lo Carbing after induction????

Nuts are a great part of the Atkins diet. In fact, macadamia nuts were Dr. Atkins' favorite.

Kanjivee:

Nuts are fine eventually on Atkins, but not on Induction. Nuts like cheese, do contain carbs and it's very easy to consume more carbohydrate than you think because it's very difficult to stop at just a handful. Those small carb numbers are for a very small amount of nuts. Some nuts are better than others. The macadamia is the prince among thieves.

The bigger question is, why are you snacking so much? If you are eating fat and protein-rich meals on an Atkins-style Induction, your cravings should vanish.

Atkins is about finding the ratio of fat, protein and carbohydrate that work for your body. You have to begin the process with fat and protein and carefully restrict and control the carbohydrate until you learn how your body and metabolism respond. Once you are losing weight regularly, then you can add carbohydrate according to the phase and you'll make adjustments as you go.

This is the critical tool that must be acquired or maintenance will not be successful. In my opinion, this is the part that seperates Atkins from all other plans. It teaches maintenance by regulating how you lose. The most weight is lost on Ongoing Weight Loss, not Induction.

Wine would be treated like any other carbohydrate in that you would need to observe the effect on your body after the occasional drink. However, you would need to count the carbohydrate. Some of the drier diabetic friendly wines would be a good place to start, in later stages, of course.

Alcohol stops fat burning. Unlike a regular carbohydrate, the body cannot convert it to glycerine for muscle use so therefore it suspends fat burning until the alcohol has been burnt. It also suspends lypolisys. Despite those facts, some people can tolerate alcohol and still lose weight, so it really depends on how your body responds.

All the best,

Charles

Thanks for that - I like my red wine so it's nice to know I don't have to say goodbye forever. With this new way of eating, I will be drinking it a little more moderately than I used to.

I think I still have the mindset that fat will make me fat so I guess I am still watching my fat intake to a degree - I don't add oils or butter at all. I know this is something I need to work on so I am trying - it's just so hard to believe that you can eat fat and not have to worry about weight gain!!!!!

Kanjivee, do you plan on eating low carb for the rest of your life, or is this just a way to drop a few pounds?

If you plan on sticking to it, I wouldn't worry about that 10lbs right now....I'd concentrate on eating the right foods. When you're eating low carb consistently, you can tweak for weight loss. Personally, I'd suggest dropping the nuts and eating more fat with your regular meals so you don't feel the need to graze. You have to learn the difference between actual hunger and cravings. Eat when you're hungry, not when your body tells you it sure would like a few more carbs.

I feel so much better after just 1 week of low carbing, so plan to do it indefinately. I don't have a lot to lose so I guess I can't expect miracles. I've never been a patient girl

Even when you reach your weight loss goal, I challenge you now to continue on with low-carb for the sake of your health Kanjivee. Weight loss is merely a byproduct of livin' la vida low-carb--it's all about living healthy and doing it for the rest of your life.

Kanjivee:

You wrote:

"I think I still have the mindset that fat will make me fat so I guess I am still watching my fat intake to a degree - I don't add oils or butter at all. I know this is something I need to work on so I am trying - it's just so hard to believe that you can eat fat and not have to worry about weight gain!!!!! "

This is the hardest part for all of us to come to grips with. That's why I originally asked you to read Dr. Atkins' book, the New Diet Revolution. In Chapter 7, he talks about the "metabolic advantage." He cites amazing studies that show when we fast, we lose a certain amount of body fat. However, when we eat a high fat diet, with only 10g of carbohydrate, we lose TWICE the amount of fat from our bodies! Can you believe that, twice the amount than when we eat nothing at all. And, we preserve muscle, unlike fasting where we lose muscle and fat.

There still needs to be more studies on this, but all of us who have been successful on Atkins, know that this works, regardless of why it works.

I've written in other posts about absorption of nutrients by the body. There are many nutrients in fruits and vegetables that are termed "fat soluable." This means that your body cannot absorb them very well unless there is adequate dietary fat. Even your multi-vitamin will work best when combined with fattier meals!

So when you have that salad, grab that oil and drench those veggies. Get that butter working and saute those vegetables. Your body will appreciate it and it will show up in your weight-loss efforts.

I personally have a small bowl of Brier's Carb Smart Butter Pecan practically every night after dinner because it's loaded with fat and only has 5g Net Carb. I am well below my goal weight and I'm certainly enjoying life!

All the best,

Charles

ITA with Charles. I just had a breakfast with 80% of my calories from fat. It's been 30 minutes and--honestly--my body is saying, "Take me for a walk, will ya? I've got ENERGY to burn!"

If I had eaten two regular pancakes with no butter? My body would be asking me when it's time for lunch! Already! Trying to lose weight on that kind of low fat regime is an *endurance test*, not a pleasurable way of life. I've done it, successfully for the most part, so I know it can be done, but it can be torture to sustain losses on a low-fat diet!

I feel better and all of my body systems work better with plenty of fat on board. I eat all that I want, I enjoy my meals, I enjoy my treats--and because they are so satisfying and delicious and because there is no overdose of insulin released--I am completely satisfied until it is time to give my body more delicious, high fat, nutrition....

I had a baby in March, so I'm back to having a few pounds to lose, but I originally lost 48 pounds on Atkins. Not always rapidly but very pleasurably!

What I lost? 48 pounds of heavy, exhausting, unattractive fat. Also depression. Also dry skin. Also exhaustion. Also tiny plateful after tiny plateful of "DIET FOOD."

What I gained? Better food. More food. Better nutrition. More energy. Better health.

It's *NOT* a diet; it's eating healthier, for life. Having more energy, for life. Feeling better, for life.

Just 'cause a doctor says fat's bad for you doesn't make it so. Read the Atkins book like Charles says. Very eye-opening.

THE OLD WAY: A dry chicken breast, a salad, a few dry crackers, and a calorie-free salad dressing *with* a constant food focus/obsession

THE NEW WAY: A rib eye steak, a salad, and the very richest and most delicious salad dressing I can find *with* the ability to walk away from the table satisfied and thankful, not thinking about when I can eat next.

Even if the weight loss results weren't so much more spectacular, I would choose this WOE for the peace that my body enjoys between meals, without those self-induced insulin overdoses.

I've actually lost the most weight when I wasn't counting calories-- but I kept my carbs down to what Dr. Atkins calls "biologically Zero". I find that when I stick to basics-- and this may mean going back to the Atkins '72 book and following the plan as written-- I'm likely to drop the weight pretty darned fast.

Hey Raven

I have the 2002 version so don't know what the 1972 version suggested. Are you say that you stick as close to zero carbs as you can???