I suppose the biggest problem is how many people think they HAVE to listen to their doctors or that dietitians, nutritionists are the end all be all of knowledge. They don't keep up with research any more than lay people do. At least the average joe has an excuse. They don't know any better, they are suppose to look to someone with more knowledge. But when the typical doc is so far behind times in what constitues a "healthy" lifestyle---it is up to health consumers to take the bull by the horns.
I'm a big advocate of being proactive in your own health care. Do your own research. Just don't blindly listen to what so called experts have to say.
And don't even get me started on how big pharma and big agra plays a role in what the experts have to say.
Full Version: I suppose the biggest problem is how many people think they HAVE to listen to their doctors
Amen sista! I rarely listen to doctors. Sorry.. I just know more about my body and health than they do. I've learned it by research and experience. I HATE it when doctors use the knee-jerk reaction of "let's fix this with drugs." I think, with the exception in extreme cases, the patients diet should be considered, and then modified, first. I've saved myself a small fortune in prescriptions simply because I refused to take the medications and changed my diet instead. :0)
I was shocked to learn during my interview series with various bariatric physicians recently that diet and nutrition received only ONE WEEK of devotion in medical school. ONE WEEK?!?! Is it any wonder why doctors seem to be so clueless about how to handle obesity? 
Bamgirl,
You are so right. My second opinion usually comes from the internet, and my first too. I try to avoid doctors whenever possible.
You are so right. My second opinion usually comes from the internet, and my first too. I try to avoid doctors whenever possible.
I approve of this thread! 
I think you guys are awesome!
I myself have only gained health through taking the responsibility on myself.
I think you guys are awesome!
I myself have only gained health through taking the responsibility on myself.
I am pretty lucky with my Doc. He knows I eat low carb and is all for it. Some of the other things he doesn't always approve of but I have a terrible problem being sensitive to medications. We have an agreement. He tells me what I should be taking, knowing that I am going to ignore him or else cut the dosage in half.
We have been doing this for years. But the other part of the agreement is that in return for not doing what he wants me to I have to be a guinea pig for all of his medical students when I come in.
We have been doing this for years. But the other part of the agreement is that in return for not doing what he wants me to I have to be a guinea pig for all of his medical students when I come in.
| QUOTE (livinlowcarbman @ Aug 7 2007, 10:35 AM) |
| I was shocked to learn during my interview series with various bariatric physicians recently that diet and nutrition received only ONE WEEK of devotion in medical school. ONE WEEK?!?! Is it any wonder why doctors seem to be so clueless about how to handle obesity? |
It's astounding! 2007 and totally blind, deaf and dumb! Incredible! Now we know why Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld are so out of touch! The whole world is!
Dr. Mercola may be a little of center on some issues, but where there is smoke there is fire. Check this out.
http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/medical_mistakes.htm
http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/medical_mistakes.htm
I come from a family who just has never trusted doctors with our health. My mom always treated us with home remedies. I always come home with an Rx and immediatly look it up on the internet to decide if I will take it and in what dose AND if there is a natural remedy I can try first.
I agree that doctors are just people and there is no way they can keep up with every study that is put out in addition to seeing all their patients. we HAVE to take responsibility for our own health.
I agree that doctors are just people and there is no way they can keep up with every study that is put out in addition to seeing all their patients. we HAVE to take responsibility for our own health.
To tell you the truth guys,
We always have to tell people to seek medical advice (for legal reasons),
But in my own personal choices, my philosophy is F$$$ Doctors!
MY own personal history has been bad. I mean they pretty much ruined my life with medication when I was a kid.
Childhood obesity is hard to deal with, and it pretty much screwed me up for life.
I can only pick up the pieces now.
In my adult life the advice has been worse!
One doctor once prescibed lots of bread. To fill up of bread so this will help me lose weight!!!
When I was close to 500 pounds all the doctors could talk about is expensive WLS. No other options.
It was only when I got really mad and fired up, and then used Atkins as my life-rope was I able to achieve anything.
In fact I started losing weight to spite the Doctors!
Hmmmm maybe I need to get that fire back!
We always have to tell people to seek medical advice (for legal reasons),
But in my own personal choices, my philosophy is F$$$ Doctors!
MY own personal history has been bad. I mean they pretty much ruined my life with medication when I was a kid.
Childhood obesity is hard to deal with, and it pretty much screwed me up for life.
I can only pick up the pieces now.
In my adult life the advice has been worse!
One doctor once prescibed lots of bread. To fill up of bread so this will help me lose weight!!!
When I was close to 500 pounds all the doctors could talk about is expensive WLS. No other options.
It was only when I got really mad and fired up, and then used Atkins as my life-rope was I able to achieve anything.
In fact I started losing weight to spite the Doctors!
Hmmmm maybe I need to get that fire back!
My boss recently found out he's diabetic, so he went to the diabetic class. He was told to eat between - GET THIS FOLKS! - 45 and 60g carbs PER MEAL. Yes, you read that right - up to about 180g/day. And no, the emphasis wasn't on high fiber carbs and vegetables, necessarily. I told him he's going to gain weight and end up on pills and then shots.
I pointed him to Jimmy's blog, but he said he's not going to listen to "some blogger guy." His doctors went to medical school. Uh-huh . . .
I pointed him to Jimmy's blog, but he said he's not going to listen to "some blogger guy." His doctors went to medical school. Uh-huh . . .
A lot of supposedly educated people get trapped in the prevailing dogma. All it takes is a "respected" person publishing a study that was probably signed off on with little to no review and the whole field lines up like a bunch of sheep. I think most of us are old enough to remember when the government declared that saturated fats were BAD...and suddenly, nearly every single doctor in the country and every nutritionist were telling us we had to ditch butter and coconut oil. Then they told us eggs were bad, red meat was bad....eat lots of bread and cereals. Most of us didn't give it a second thought. We jumped right in line.
The medical establishment has done us a huge disservice and I, for one, will never trust them again. Thanks to the advent of the internet, ordinary people can now jump online and do their own research. There's a wealth of information at our fingertips and we are much better off for it.
The medical establishment has done us a huge disservice and I, for one, will never trust them again. Thanks to the advent of the internet, ordinary people can now jump online and do their own research. There's a wealth of information at our fingertips and we are much better off for it.
Fitlanta My sister was told to eat at least 45 grams per meal....and her daughter (41 yrs, over 300 #) was told 90 grams per meal!!
As for the blog guy? Point him towards Dr Mike (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/) or Dr Vernon (http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrvernon/). They are both MDs that have treated thousands of patients!
As for the blog guy? Point him towards Dr Mike (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/) or Dr Vernon (http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrvernon/). They are both MDs that have treated thousands of patients!
Taoschick, they certainly have. We are just now, in the past few years, getting to some of the main culprits in the obesity explosion in this country over the past 30 years - trans fats and high fructose corn syrup. The whole medical community took note of the trend towards obesity, but mis-diagnosed the causes. You'd think, however, that it would be common sense to not tell a diabetic to eat a bunch of carbs and then take their insulin shots or pills.
CindySue54, that's almost unthinkable. A nutritionist or doctor actually told a 300 lb woman to eat 90g carbs per meal?!!!! Are they trying to kill her? I hope your niece is now listening to you.
Thank you SO MUCH for the links. I'm going to give them to my boss on Monday.
CindySue54, that's almost unthinkable. A nutritionist or doctor actually told a 300 lb woman to eat 90g carbs per meal?!!!! Are they trying to kill her? I hope your niece is now listening to you.
Thank you SO MUCH for the links. I'm going to give them to my boss on Monday.
Fitlanta, I've noticed that there is a tremendous amount of skepticism when people first start livin' la vida low-carb. The way to combat that is to keep sharing the science while continuing to be the example. After a while, even your biggest critics will have to at least acknowledge your success.
| QUOTE (Fitlanta @ Aug 11 2007, 08:39 AM) |
| CindySue54, that's almost unthinkable. A nutritionist or doctor actually told a 300 lb woman to eat 90g carbs per meal?!!!! Are they trying to kill her? I hope your niece is now listening to you. |
Fitlanta. As far as I'm concerned her doc should be disciplined for his treatment of her!! And yes, she still sees him and no, won't listen to me.
About a year ago, my niece was having vision problems and went to an eye doc. She was given glasses, but that didn't resolve the problem. She then went to her doc and at 1 in the afternoon, fasting, she had a blood sugar of over 500!! She was given a prescription, told to buy a blood sugar monitor, and sent home....no diet, no explanation of what to do about high or low blood sugars, etc. Her friend, a RN, stopped by on her way home from work and showed her how to test her sugar...and at that point, still fasting, her BS was over 700! Her friend paged the doc and he just told her to take one of the pills and then in the AM take her regular once a day dose!
The next day her friend saw the doc at the hospital and confronted him. He stated that my niece was "non-compliant" with her other medical treatments (he's right, she is), and he figured she wouldn't pay attention to him about this either. He did tell the friend what his parameters were and she conveyed them to my niece. Eventually my niece was able to go to a dietitian....and was given the 90g per meal limit. Not just limit, but expected intake. Now, my niece has never eaten between meals....except after dinner...so that may be why the numbers were higher for her. And, I imagine that the dietitian could tell that she'd need a few more calories than some, and of course you can't have increased fat or protein!
With my sister, she'd been maintaining her weight, which is about 30-40 pounds over her ideal....and then her dietitian told her to increase her carbs each meal!! She told my sister she wasn't eating enough!! Mind you, she's on 2 meds, at max dose for one and very close to max on the second. I've talked to her about low carb and she seems receptive, but never gets around to bringing it up with her doc!
My sister does try....but she is afraid to go against what her doc says. I told her that I've read that many docs won't encourage low carb unless the patient brings it up, so she says she's going to talk to him. He A1c runs just under 7, so she's within "normal" range.
My niece on the other hand is in complete denial. She stopped drinking sugared sodas, which dropped her bs considerably, and thinks now she doesn't have to worry!! I've tried to tell her that she's just delayed things a few months or years, but she ignores me. I live in NC and she's in MA, so that doesnt' help much!
One week of education on nutrition in medical school is woefully inadequate. Why can't the health institutions realize this glaring omission since most health ailments are diet-related?
CindySue, you are in such a frustrating position. I know from personal experience.
Before my boss went to the diabetic nutrition class, he had decided to "cut out sugar." Mind you, he paid no heed to my warnings about starches. Cutting out sugar did help him improve his numbers, though.
Your niece is in denial indeed. It's one of those situations where you almost can't say anything. She may not listen, and you will only end up straining your relationship with her and hurting her feelings.
I agree with you that your niece's doctor should be disciplined. Your niece may frustrate her doctor, but he still has to be proactive and honest. But then again . . . If she's "non-compliant," how many times has he pleaded with her to do the right things, only to have his instructions ignored? Maybe, she won't listen to the doctor or you. Still, for a dietician to recommend 90g carbs per meal is insane, yet it prolly falls directly in line with ADA guidelines.
Before my boss went to the diabetic nutrition class, he had decided to "cut out sugar." Mind you, he paid no heed to my warnings about starches. Cutting out sugar did help him improve his numbers, though.
Your niece is in denial indeed. It's one of those situations where you almost can't say anything. She may not listen, and you will only end up straining your relationship with her and hurting her feelings.
I agree with you that your niece's doctor should be disciplined. Your niece may frustrate her doctor, but he still has to be proactive and honest. But then again . . . If she's "non-compliant," how many times has he pleaded with her to do the right things, only to have his instructions ignored? Maybe, she won't listen to the doctor or you. Still, for a dietician to recommend 90g carbs per meal is insane, yet it prolly falls directly in line with ADA guidelines.
| QUOTE (Fitlanta @ Aug 11 2007, 04:25 PM) |
| CindySue, you are in such a frustrating position. I know from personal experience. Before my boss went to the diabetic nutrition class, he had decided to "cut out sugar." Mind you, he paid no heed to my warnings about starches. Cutting out sugar did help him improve his numbers, though. Your niece is in denial indeed. It's one of those situations where you almost can't say anything. She may not listen, and you will only end up straining your relationship with her and hurting her feelings. I agree with you that your niece's doctor should be disciplined. Your niece may frustrate her doctor, but he still has to be proactive and honest. But then again . . . If she's "non-compliant," how many times has he pleaded with her to do the right things, only to have his instructions ignored? Maybe, she won't listen to the doctor or you. Still, for a dietician to recommend 90g carbs per meal is insane, yet it prolly falls directly in line with ADA guidelines. |
My niece wasn't exactly non-compliant....she just isn't as diligent as docs think she should be. She's on coumadin, after having 2 pulmonary embolisms. She's supposed to get blood work done every 3 months, but usually only gets it about once every 5-6 months. In her defense tho, she's been on this stuff for over 16 yrs, and hasn't had an adjustment in dosage in over 10 yrs. She's also a smoker, which is especially bad with her lung damage, but otherwise does try to take care of herself. But yea, denial about her impending diabetes!
I am planning on sending her one of Dr Atkin's books, or maybe Protein Power....but i doubt she'll even read it. One thing with my niece, she's a very busy lady, although her life is slowing down. She had a very demanding job that often includes traveling long distances and sometimes even overnight. She's also got 2 kids and runs around a lot with them...although now they are grown up and driving themselves. I think part of her problem is the thought that she'll need to plan things....and I think at this point in time that might be just one more chore...and one she's not willing to take on. I also suspect mild depression with her....and think that's another factor.
Her carb count did calculate out to about 60-65% of her calories, so yea, it's right in line with the ADA.
It really becomes a vicious circle when you think about it. All of our lives we have been told we can trust our Doctors to know what is right for our health. Many of us can't get past this.
Before going to nursing school I used to blindly follow anything my Dr. told me. But I guess I have just seen to much now. I know that Docs make just as many mistakes as the rest of us.
They have to many patients and can't keep track of who is taking what etc. I personally research a lot of stuff for my patients but there are a lot of nurses that don't do that. I see it a lot, it really P.Os me when I have to come out of my office and tell the nurses on the floor about stuff that got missed or symptoms that got charted etc but nobody followed up on them. Few of them seem to want to take the initiative to get out from behind the desk and go and actually look at the patients.
Just an insiders view.
Before going to nursing school I used to blindly follow anything my Dr. told me. But I guess I have just seen to much now. I know that Docs make just as many mistakes as the rest of us.
They have to many patients and can't keep track of who is taking what etc. I personally research a lot of stuff for my patients but there are a lot of nurses that don't do that. I see it a lot, it really P.Os me when I have to come out of my office and tell the nurses on the floor about stuff that got missed or symptoms that got charted etc but nobody followed up on them. Few of them seem to want to take the initiative to get out from behind the desk and go and actually look at the patients.
Just an insiders view.
And that's the reason I always say that people need to take responsibility for their own health just as parents should be the primary educator for their kids. Doctors and public school teachers are not the be all end all.
Jimmy, you couldn't have put that better. One should definitely take what a doctor has to say seriously, but that's no reason not to do your own research.
CindySue, your niece is fortunate to have you. It sounds like going low carb would be a huge adjustment on all levels - thinking about food and nutrition differently, planning her meals, and acknowledging that some permanent changes must be made. I hope she will at least glance through the book you send her. Maybe you need to highlight the most important pages and insist that she read them.
CindySue, your niece is fortunate to have you. It sounds like going low carb would be a huge adjustment on all levels - thinking about food and nutrition differently, planning her meals, and acknowledging that some permanent changes must be made. I hope she will at least glance through the book you send her. Maybe you need to highlight the most important pages and insist that she read them.
It's the heart of what I'm now doing with my blog, podcast show, and this forum, Fitlanta! Happy to have you be a part of it.
Fitlanta....that's a good idea, but I doubt it would make a difference. She's just not ready I guess.
I do worry about her tho. She's had health problems all her life and I'm afraid this is going to catch up with her!! And now, to top it all off, she needs to have a hyst. She's terrified, as I would be. If she'd try low carb the surgery would likely be safer and she might not even need it!! She has PCOS (although her doc says she doesn't) and they want to do the hyst to remove both ovaries and her uterus.
I do worry about her tho. She's had health problems all her life and I'm afraid this is going to catch up with her!! And now, to top it all off, she needs to have a hyst. She's terrified, as I would be. If she'd try low carb the surgery would likely be safer and she might not even need it!! She has PCOS (although her doc says she doesn't) and they want to do the hyst to remove both ovaries and her uterus.
I tried to do what the medical establishment said -- low fat/high carb, and wrecked my health with obesity and type 2 diabetes. Now that I doing the opposite of what they say and following a lifestyle they call "unhealthy," I'm losing weight and getting better.
Unfortunately, I do need to see the doctor regularly as I'm still on some meds and need test strips. It's also good to have regular checks of A1C and kidney function. I get nervous when it comes time for a cholesterol test, but so far, I've been under the threshold for statins. I only attended one session of diabetes education (more low fat/high carb nonsense) and have been largely self educated since. I'm doing better than most diabetics. My doctors aren okay and thrilled with my level of control. I haven't fully breached the subject of low carb yet. I would just like to find a Dr. Bernstein or Dr. Vernon in my area.
Unfortunately, I do need to see the doctor regularly as I'm still on some meds and need test strips. It's also good to have regular checks of A1C and kidney function. I get nervous when it comes time for a cholesterol test, but so far, I've been under the threshold for statins. I only attended one session of diabetes education (more low fat/high carb nonsense) and have been largely self educated since. I'm doing better than most diabetics. My doctors aren okay and thrilled with my level of control. I haven't fully breached the subject of low carb yet. I would just like to find a Dr. Bernstein or Dr. Vernon in my area.
| QUOTE (renegadediabetic @ Aug 15 2007, 10:50 AM) |
| I would just like to find a Dr. Bernstein or Dr. Vernon in my area. |
Have you tried contacting either and asking if they know of any carb-friendly docs in your area?
| QUOTE |
| Before going to nursing school I used to blindly follow anything my Dr. told me. But I guess I have just seen to much now. I know that Docs make just as many mistakes as the rest of us. |
Lady Red---I was in the same boat----
and now working in the mental health field----I see the patients suffering with their illnesses---meds and therapy can only do so much---and with all the research out how beneficial a ketogenic diet is for the brain---I tell the pts all the time about my experience with low carb
my job was threatened if I didn't keep my mouth shut about low carb---I still get the message out but have to do it on the sly---
medical establishments don't want people to get well---they make more money if they keep them sick
ok---coming down off my soap box now
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