Hey Amy:

I wouldn't stress over it. If that's what you have, go ahead and enjoy. I wish you would have had a small piece of protein at lunch instead of your salad. It's important to develop good eating habits and try to have some protein at each meal serving as the foundation. The salad is not a meal, it's more like a "go with."
That little bit of protein at lunch would have taken you well into the evening without snacking, which is what you want. You should try not to let 6 hours go by without eating.

Have your turkey burgers wrapped in green leaf , a little mayo, mustard, cheese, tomato, YUM. When you go grocery shopping, check out that ground round, 80/20 or better. It's less expensive and contains more fat.

Have a good time tonight.

Regards,

Charles

Fitday tip... use the raw version of foods when you can. If you're adding "scrambled eggs", just add eggs, whole, raw and the quantity and size of the egg. Fitday adds things to it's prepared foods.

And... be aware that labels can (and will) lie to you... and, if you're eating whole, unprocessed foods, there is no label!

Fitday uses the USDA nutritional database... so using its information is good.

Thanks for the link in your blog. I have tried to read as much as I can of your blog posts, but there are a lot of them! I thought everyone was affected by salt the same as I am. Now I know. At least I am in good company though

Amy:

No, the avocado and the cream can stay. On page 129, it says that you can add half a small avocado and three ounces of unsweetended heavy cream. These are there to add variety and are listed as Special Category foods.

The thing that you can take with you the rest of your time on DANDR is that these special category foods are condiments and used for variety. They should never be a meal unto themselves. Nuts and cheese will later fall into this category when you get to Ongoing Weight Loss. Induction is trying to teach you how to reformulate your plate, so fatty protein is the foundation and carbs are the side item, so to speak. You may have heard that bread was the staff of life, but Induction is here to teach you that fatty protein is the staff of life. I got that from Regina Wilshire (have to give credit where credit is due).

You're doing great Amy,

Charles

Don't forget the vegetables... you need 12-15 net carbs from vegetables on Induction!

Well, I think it should be more that "a bit" of vegetable carbs...

If you're doing Atkins Induction, it's 12-15 NET carbs from vegetables, which can be a rather large amount of vegetables, depending on what ones you're eating.

There's a lot of vegetables with Atkins... it's just that the fat and the meat get all the press!

Amy:

I think you're doing fine. Don't try to force it. You are managing your plate well and that is far more important than trying to get to some number. It's not a vegetable diet, it's a high fat diet. You are learning the major Induction rules and that's what counts. As you move through the phases, we'll naturally add more vegetables, but for now, if we can get you losing steadily, you'll have control and then when we add things, we'll know exactly how your body responds.

Keep up the good work and keep me posted.

Charles

Vegetables are a very important component of Atkins. A reasonable ratio of calories while on Induction is 60-75% fat, 5% carbs, and the rest protein.

Getting 12-15 net carbs from vegetables will be about 5% of your eating.

Getting all the vegetables is a "major Induction rule"... so it counts just as much as getting enough fat.

While it's not necessary to get everything right the first day, I think a disservice is done by ignoring the emphasis on vegetables, which Dr. Atkins emphasized!

I've seen a lot of people fail because they didn't eat enough vegetables...

SJM:

I'm really not de-emphasizing vegetables as you say. I'm merely saying that one does not need to obsess over them so early in the program. You're dealing with folks who have only been eating the equivalent of boiled turkey and water trying to lose weight at all costs.

Induction is more about forming the plate properly. This is something that one will use for the rest of their life. In my view it's more important to learn that early because make no mistake, carbs will come. Hear Dr. Atkins on this point:

So, here we go. You're doing Atkins, and naturally you begin by eating -- something you've previously done with some degree of guilt. Say good-bye to all that. It's time to plow into those prime ribs and that cheese omelette. You must have faith. As you savor high calorie food you always thought would make you fat, you can now relax. DANDR, p.136.

There is no place in DANDR that we are cautioned to ensure consumption of 20g of vegetables. In fact, we see the opposite. The 20g is placed there as a caution lest we exceed it. On Page 138, we're told that if our test strips don't turn,

"measure your salads to make sure you are not eating too many vegetables."

On practically any low fat, low calorie diet, salads are unrestricted. They may tell you to watch your salad dressings, but you can generally eat as much salad as you want. On Atkins, not so. There is a whole chapter devoted to the Metabolic Advantage of Low Carb Diets where fat is named as the catalyst for our weight loss. What chapter equates eating vegetables to fat? Further, what chapter equates vegetable consumption with weight loss? It doesn't exist!

Regina Wilshire tackled this from the other perspective. Many critics of our Nutritional Approach feel that we don't get enough vegetables, and here Rule 3, she successfully argues that fruits and vegetables are at the heart of our prgram. I agree with this statement. However, Ms. Wilshire's examination of the 20g rule is instructive:

Once again, I am providing examples to emphasize, even at 20g net carbohydrate, where 10g net is the minimum, a low-carb plan - done properly - meets or exceeds intake recommendation of at least five servings per day in the Dietary Recommendations for Americans for fruits and vegetables.

So if someone only hits 10g early on, it's simply not a problem.

Hopefully this notion will be further challenged by the new JAMA Women's Healthy Eating and Living Randomized trial of July 18, 2007, Vol. 298 No.3, which concluded that "among survivors of early stage breast cancer, adoption of a diet that was very high in vegetables, fruit, and fiber and low in fat, did not reduce additional breast cancer events or mortality during a 7.3-year follow-up period." Cited by me in Ms. Wilshire's comment section.

The biggest problem I've observed is people simply not eating enough fat and protein to jumpstart their metabolisms. Here is a quote from the great Dr. Atkins himself from the section, How to Fashion a Food Plan from the Acceptable Foods List on Page 131:

Now that you know what foods you can eat, a meal plan should leap out at you. You should instantly see that for breakfast a ham, cheese and mushroom omelette, or nitrate free bacon and scrambled egges, or slices of smoked salmon wrapped around cream cheese would start off the day on the right note.

For lunch, the typical chef's salad with chicken, nitrate free ham, cheese and hard-boiled egg on a bed of greens, covered with a creamy garlic dressing, will qualify, as will a cheeseburger without the bun. (Avoid ketchup, which contains sugar.) Or maybe a chicken Caesar salad (skip the coutons) or a scoop of homemade tuna or chicken salad.

Base your dinners around your favorite protein main courses --lamb chops, poached salmon, roast chicken, filet mignon, buttered lobster tails, seafood mixed grill or whatever you fancy -- plus a salad. You might even have an appetizer such as shrimp cocktail with a mustard and mayonnaise sauce (cocktail sauce has carbohydrates), pate or steamed clams in garlic butter. And for dessert, have assorted cheeses or flavored gelatin made with sucralose and topped with whipped heavy cream. [...]

Here and now, your attention should be totally focused on whether you feel you are in control of your eating and whether you feel healthy.

So you see, it's not that I de-emphasize vegetables -- I believe they are very important, but they have a secondary role especially on Induction. Induction is about gaining control over your eating which will in turn lead to control over your weight loss. Control is the key to weight loss and also the key to Maintenance.

Best regards,

Charles

Which Atkins program has this requirement?

I'd like to welcome you and your husband to Atkins and the fact that you are doing it together will make it much easier.

You really have to expand your mind about breakfast. It really can be anything that you want to eat. You are not limited to "traditional breakfast" foods. When you get your copy of the NDR (New Diet Revolution) it will have some examples, suggestions and recipes. More importantly, it will have the Acceptable Foods List which you can also download from www.atkins.com. Eat whatever you like from there, if you don't want eggs. You can get some frozen beef or pork sausage patties from Wal-Mart's frozen section in a bag. They are nitrate and nitrite free.

If you have oil and vinegar, you can have as much as you like. You can also have full-fat salad dressings like Hidden Valley. They usually have 2g of sugar on the ingredients, so have some, but don't go crazy with it.

Grazing mode should not happen if you eat plenty of protein and fat at your regular meals. You need to eat until you are full and then you shouldn't need to snack.

Your headaches were probably caused by a lack of fat and a lack of food. Make sure you eat enough. If you have headaches on Induction, then up your vegetables a little. Try to get close to that 20g using vegetables on the Acceptable Foods List.

Try to skip the shakes and use real food. It will say on the Shake package if it is suitable for Induction. You really want to eat "real" food if possible, but if it's not, don't starve.

The main focus is to eat, preferably fattier cuts of meat as the foundation of your meal. Eat your controlled vegetables and if you are still hungry, eat more meat. Fill up on the meat and not on the veggies.

You don't have to exercise right away. If you do, I would highly reccomend weight lifting as opposed to cardio, especially because you weigh 370 pounds. Weight lifting will build more muscle and burn more fat.

You will only feel sluggish if you are not eating. Eat fatty protein until you are full and you will have plenty of energy. When you weigh 370, you must eat as though you weigh 370. Don't try to eat like someone who weighs 100, or you won't have any energy.

Feel free to post back with any questions or if I can clarify more for you. I'm glad you are both here and I'm looking forward to hearing good things from you.

All the best,

Charles

None of your page numbers match the text on the page numbers in my book...

I suggest chapter and section when quoting DANDR. I have the white hardcover 2002. The paperback versions of the 2002 don't have the same page numbers in my experience.

I don't doubt that you have typed the information correctly.

>>So if someone only hits 10g early on, it's simply not a problem.>>

Based on my experiences helping people, it is a problem.

Perhaps in your experiences helping people, it's not been a problem.

I'll keep giving the advice I've seen work ... and you give your advice... and we'll have to agree to disagree on vegetables during Induction and whether or not 20 net carbs is better than less net carbs.

<smile>

suellen

Atkins 2002.

SJM:

My quotes come directly from Chapter 11, And Away You Go: The Induction Phase, from the paperback 2002.

Regardless of the book, there is no place in the hardback or paperback where it says that 20g is required. The 20g is only there as warning not to exceed this amount which may drop a person from ketosis.

I'm not saying that it's better to have less than 20g, I'm saying that it's not something to obsess over, especially at this early stage on Induction. As Chapter 7 clearly illustrates, weight loss is dependant on fat consumption and fat metabolism. If someone loses more weight when they add 20g of vegetables, that seems to be indicative of someone who simply does not eat enough food. The two ideas are corelated, but you cannot infer causation.

On Inducation we are trying to force our bodies to burn fat, via ketosis. We don't want to get any food energy from glucose, that's why we are cautioned not to overconsume vegetables which may cause our bodies to stop fat burning and burn glucose instead. Vegetables may not provide fuel at this stage in any way, shape or form.

It's possible to remain in ketosis despite overconsuming vegetables because strips only show wasted ketones, but this is not where we want to be in Induction.

All the best,

Charles

No. I'm saying that the only times ketones show up on strips is when they are being wasted by the body. They get excreted from the body either through the breath or urine. Sometimes a person can remain in ketosis even though they are not showing any visible signs (such as strips or breath) because their bodies get efficient at using ketones. This is usually referred to as being "fat adapted."

I think we both agree that the majority are not eating enough food to keep their metabolisms running strong and this is the major reason that people stall.

Regards,

Charles