Hi everyone,

Ok - I have been at this for a few days. Because I don't eat fatty cuts of meat, dark chicken meat and the like I am relying on adding my fat to my food alot. I just can't get to the level everyone is talking about

The two days where I got the ratios of protein, fat and carbs reasonably close, I got headaches. I am sure it is the amount of fat. I posted earlier (and elswhere I think) that for easter, my mum used to make aioli - which is egg, oil and garlic mayonnaise - and I used love it. I'd ho into it like nobody's business and I always used to get headaches after. It's like my body can't handle that level of fat. I am sure that the extra fat is the problem. People have said here that you can't eat too much fat because your body will tell you and it will make you sick - well it's happening. If I'm supposed to have protein with every meal and the fat to protein ratio is two or three to one, I just can't see it working for me.

Today I have had 70.95g protein, 62.56g fat and 5.28g of carbs and I haven't had dinner yet. The other problem I have is that almost every day at work, I am out for lunch so it is really hard to get the ratios right - not so hard to low carb but the ratios are the issue. Today I had steak and salad for lunch - high protein, reasonable carbs but fairly low fat (coz it was a lean cut of meat).

I feel like I just keep getting it wrong... any suggestions?

I've never heard of anyone getting headaches from fat!! Maybe it just takes your body a while to get used to it....or maybe a diet less fat intensive would be better.

First, I'd start buying less lean cuts of meat. Eat the skin on chicken and maybe eat dark meat over white. Second, I'd make sure I was using a full fat dressing on my salad.

Not sure what the concern about the ratios is about....is that something to do with Dr Groves' plan?

I follow Protein Power. I make sure I get enough protein and keep my carbs low. I rarely think about fat. There are days only 30% of my calories are fat calories....and other days it's 70%. I never skimp on fat, but also don't add much extra....cream in my shakes and butter on my veggies is about all the extra I add. In my opinion it's more important to keep your carbs low and your protein adequate.

Fat IS necessary, and you should be making an effort to get extra fat in your diet (mono saturates and saturates!!), but I don't think you NEED high levels as much as some claim.

"Today I have had 70.95g protein, 62.56g fat and 5.28g of carbs and I haven't had dinner yet."

That sounds good to me, another 30-40 grams protein for dinner along with some veggies, either buttered or dressed with full fat dressing. That sounds OK to me....so far you've had about 958 calories, dinner being another 300-400 would bring you up to a decent total for the day...a bit low (IMHO) but decent.

Vee,

Your carbs are really low! I ran your ratios and they look like this:
Calories 868, carbs 2%, Fat, 65%, Protein 33%. Had you eaten 30g of carb, your ratios would have looked like this: Calories 987, carbs 12%, fat 57%, protein 28%.

When playing with these numbers you have to remember you can really scew them by not eating in the range you should be at in any one area, in this case the carbs. You will notice that by bringing your carbs to a healthier number and by bringing them into the range that the plan prescribes, your protein ratio also improved.

If you have kept notes you might try to remember if the headaches came when your carb levels were ultra low like those above. That would certainly give me a headache. You also mentioned that you have not had dinner today. The other trap that you are falling into is not spreading your carbs out over the three meals.

If I remember correctly you like to stay around 95g of protein. If you ate 80g of fat and 30g of carb that would keep you in the ballpark. Your calories would still be only 1220.

You could easily add 54g of fat to your diet just by eating, 2 tablespoons of butter on your veggies or fish, 2 tablespoons of cream in your coffee, or added to shakes, and 2 tablespoons of Ranch dressing to your salad. Spread out between 3 meals and a snack or 2.
That is easily accomplished.

Since you are getting so close to maintenance you might want to try eating a few more calories. Remember the whole point of Groves is not to count calories. I'm sure as you get to maintenance you don't want to spend the rest of your life counting, so now's the time to learn to "fly by the seat of your pants".

You know your body better than anyone, so I'm not saying you are wrong, just looking at the info you gave me, and that's what I see. Is it possible that you are allergic to one type of fat. Example would be dairy, as in butter, or peanuts as in peanut oil. Do you have any other food sensitivities?

Of course Vee, if this diet is not right for you, then there are many other low carb plans out there that might be a better fit. I have tried many, and this one work the best for me, but that might not be true for you. You might consider South Beach. I'ts lower in fat and more centered around lean meat choices. It's all what works for you. Hope this helps!

Vee, I'm a big believer in listening to *your* body. I don't know what program you are on, but that's what Atkins is all about. It's *not* about achieving the amounts or percentages that are right for *someone else*.

Eat just as much fat as *YOU* like best. Don't restrict fat or protein; eat as much as you need in order to feel "pleasantly full."

Eat fat to *your tastes*.

And then see how you do. This is not a race; it's a learning experience. If the first way doesn't work, you can always try another way. :-)

(It also might be possible to gradually increase fat, if you find that you need that later.)

Vee,

If you're eating less than 1000 calories, you're at risk of putting your body in starvation mode.

You really should be eating a MINIMUM of 1500 - 1800 on Atkins (minimum, not maximum).

That's 868 pre-dinner, which is really not too bad. With a 600 cal dinner, that's about 1500 for the day.

I have some days that I believe are in the 1200-1500 range and more that are probably more like 2200-2500. I don't restrict anything but carbs--not fats, proteins, quantities, or calories. Some days are busier than others (which means that I tend to eat less) and some days I'm just a lot more hungry.

I just take the fluctuations as normal, as what my body needs and eat until I'm "pleasantly full," as Dr. A. called it.

I always start my day with 600 calories, 80% fat--but that's just me. I went for years never eating breakfast; now, I can't imagine not starting the day with something especially rich and delicious.

Let's see if I'm posting simultaneously with Mel again.... LOL.

Thanks everyone,

Sorry CindySue - I should have clarified - I am attempting (and I use the word loosely) to do Groves.

I ended up on 75.90g protein, 96.44g fat and 17.28g of net carbs - percentages 39.92% protein, 50.73% fat and 9.35% net carbs. When I said I hadn't had dinner, I meant *yet*. I deliberately kept my protein low for dinner and upped the fat and carbs. I know this isn't ideal but with bacon and eggs for breakfast and a steak at lunch, i just didn't feel like anything proteiny (I'm sure that's not a word....). Anyway - ended up on 1242 calories. I did my figures on the last few days and have ranged between 1800 and 2300 calories per day so I'm definately not starving myself Not losing weight either I think the higher calorie range doesn't work for me - by forcing up my fat I pushed up my calories to a point where I'm not gonna lose - ok for maintenance but not when you've got 10 (very sticky) pds to go!!!!!

I think I am getting too bogged down in the detail. It's my perfectionist streak - when I do something I want to do it *exactly* right and the best I can. I also think I have been so bogged down in getting the protein and fat ratio right that I forgot to have *enough* carbs.

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice. I'll work on upping my carbs across the day (not at the end of it) and won't obsess so much about the fat. I also think I will aim for around 1500 calories and see what happens.

This sure does my head in

BTW - reassuring to see all the usuals trying to help me out - you guys are great

Good luck with that Vee, and let us know how you are doing. Sometimes that last 10 lbs. takes a lot of coaxing to get rid of, so be patient and use this time to learn what works for you.

The last 10 lbs I lost took two months. When it finally came off, it was fast but it seemed like it took a long time to get there.

Vee:

I just wanted to clarify what I told you. When I say add more fat, I'm not talking about adding more mayo, butter, and oil exclusively. I mean exactly like the advice CindySue gave you, the fattier cuts of meat.

When I say "you can't overeat on fats" I'm talking about fat from fatty meats, not mayonaise, garlic and olive oil. That may very well make you sick.

I hope you don't think I meant to get fats from creams and oils along with lean meat. I think you said you didn't care for fattier meat and that's why you do the chicken breasts. My point was that if you don't like the prospect of trying to add fat to get to some ratio, then you could keep it simpler with fattier cuts of meat.

Like CindySue said, if the foundation of your meals is the fattier cut of meat, you'll get the approriate fat without having to worry about adding it through other means like salad dressings and the like, which may contain added sugars for taste.

Charles

Just a word of encouragement - the last ten is taking a while over here too. I've shaved off two pounds in around four months, but I'm also not counting anything. Just getting my carbs from veggies and a few low carb fruits and eating comfortable amounts of food three meals and a snack a day.

I'm not a big fan of mayo, or oily additions to food (although I have that butter snacker addiction. lol), or cream either so fats in my diet mainly come from fattier cuts of meat and skin on fowl.

Yum! eat on!

Val, I love your new avi. You can tell where mine mind is at LOL.

Melodie, that's duck! Low-carb duck! LOL.